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Triple tonguing



 
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Tivolian
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Joined: 22 May 2018
Posts: 22
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:54 am    Post subject: Triple tonguing Reply with quote

Greetings. I'm a comeback player in my 60s, about 2 years into playing again. Back in the old days I learned how to double- and triple-tongue, although I never worked very hard on this (or on anything else, for that matter). I joined a really good community orchestra this fall, and one of our pieces requires very fast triple-tonguing, which at speed is beyond my current capabilities. I have about two months to get up to speed if I can. Beyond the obvious of starting more slowly and practicing gradually faster, are there other techniques folks can recommend to help with fast triple-tonguing? I'm a bit worried that there might be a physiological limit to how fast I can coordinate the action. Suggestions are much appreciated.
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sunmed
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Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Northeast

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pull out your Herbert L. Clarke Characteristic Studies book and start from page 1. The first exercise is on double tonging, second lesson is triple tonging. Practice both daily with a metronome and track your improvement.

Once you get the knack of it it's easy. Within two months you'll be there.
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The double and triple tonguing exercises in Arbans are also great, and start out very easy. I suggest you make use of them. One thing of note: though it may seem counter-intuitive, the slower you practice multiple tonguing exercises at first, the quicker you will develop the ability to double and triple tongue fast and cleanly. This is especially true when practicing the multiple tonguing exercises where the notes are changing and you are not just repeating the same note throughout the measure or beat.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 190
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
The double and triple tonguing exercises in Arbans are also great, and start out very easy. I suggest you make use of them. One thing of note: though it may seem counter-intuitive, the slower you practice multiple tonguing exercises at first, the quicker you will develop the ability to double and triple tongue fast and cleanly. This is especially true when practicing the multiple tonguing exercises where the notes are changing and you are not just repeating the same note throughout the measure or beat.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested


+1

I’ve found it most effective to play slowly but making sure my pronunciation is very light. Then, when I play faster, it’s very clear and I don’t trip on my tongue.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to confuse or complicate the matter, but I just wanted to relate something a friend and I discovered recently. We were doing some duets and talking about tonguing speed. I hadn't realized what I've been doing without thinking. But when we talked about it, I realized that I tongue with the tip of my tongue alternating behind the teeth and the roof of my mouth. I do this for fast single tonguing as well as multiple tonguing.

So if doing TTK, the second T is done on the roof on the way to the K. If TKT, which is what I normally do, the same thing occurs. Do other people tongue this way?
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't fathom how the same point on the tip of the tongue could strike the teeth then recoil and strike the roof of the mouth, at least not with any appreciable speed. I suspect I'm not understanding this correctly.

In the evolution of my tonguing I started with the very tip of the tongue alternating with a K fairly far back in the mouth near the throat. My impression now is that I achieve the T with part of the tongue some distance back from the tip striking at or near the top teeth, and the K just a bit further back than that striking the roof of the mouth some place closer to the back teeth.
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
I can't fathom how the same point on the tip of the tongue could strike the teeth then recoil and strike the roof of the mouth, at least not with any appreciable speed. I suspect I'm not understanding this correctly.

In the evolution of my tonguing I started with the very tip of the tongue alternating with a K fairly far back in the mouth near the throat. My impression now is that I achieve the T with part of the tongue some distance back from the tip striking at or near the top teeth, and the K just a bit further back than that striking the roof of the mouth some place closer to the back teeth.


I taught the technique to my friend and instantly his single tonguing was as fast as his double tonging.
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Not to confuse or complicate the matter, but I just wanted to relate something a friend and I discovered recently. We were doing some duets and talking about tonguing speed. I hadn't realized what I've been doing without thinking. But when we talked about it, I realized that I tongue with the tip of my tongue alternating behind the teeth and the roof of my mouth. I do this for fast single tonguing as well as multiple tonguing.

So if doing TTK, the second T is done on the roof on the way to the K. If TKT, which is what I normally do, the same thing occurs. Do other people tongue this way?


It doesn’t matter where your tongue touches, it only matters how it sounds. Your tongue should be in the most natural position possible for you to pronounce the sounds as clrearly as possible. Don’t assume you or anyone else can understand your oral cavity and how it relates to what you’re trying to say musically with the trumpet. There are so many factors to the physicality that even if you could identify and understand all of them and their purpose, it would be impossible to “control” them all at the same time AND make music.

You don’t have to buy all that but know that if you try to hit all the notes with your tongue in the exact same place in your mouth, you’ more likely to trip on your tongue than make music.
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Bach 37/25
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F. Besson/Kanstul MEHA C
Burbank Trumpet A/Bb Piccolo
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