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Classically Trained Jazz/Pop Artists


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ComeBackTumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Classically Trained Jazz/Pop Artists Reply with quote

Can you name some classically trained Jazz/Pop trumpet players?

Al Hirt
Wynton Marsalis
Others
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me!
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Classically Trained Jazz/Pop Artists Reply with quote

ComeBackTumpet wrote:
Can you name some classically trained Jazz/Pop trumpet players?

Al Hirt
Wynton Marsalis
Others


I understand the question you are asking, but the answer really depends on your definition of ‘jazz/pop’ and what you mean by ‘classically trained’.

Remember a lot of studio and session musicians, who are frequently employed for pop recordings are, in many ways, ‘classically-trained’.

To address the latter point; what constitutes ‘classically trained’? If that simply means they have used ‘classical’ pedagogy such as Clarke, Arban, Schlossberg etc then you can immediately add: Arturo, Wayne, Vizzutti, Ryan Kisor, Sean Jones, Marcus Printup, John Barclay, Mike Lovatt, Harry James, Thomas Gansch, Lee Morgan, Clifford Brown, Doc Severinson, Randy Brecker, Adam Rapa and so many others to your list.

If, however, you mean a more stringent ‘classical trainig’ that extends beyond technical improvement and includes stylistic understanding of Symphonic or solo classical playing, the mastery of multiple trumpets (your C, Eb, Picc etc) and achievement of core ‘classical’ skills such as transposition, multiple tonguing and a sound quality uniform enough to fit into a Symphonic section, then there are far far fewer players.

All the best
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Clark Terry's bio when Doc Severinsen auditioned for Charlie Barnet he played Hora Staccato. Per Clark, Barnet's reaction was "F@@@ that, can he play blues?"
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allan Vizutti comes to mind. Years ago, around 71 I heard Al Hirt play Carnival Of Venice. Al was in his early 50s and really impressed me.
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Pete
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Chase
Byron Stripling

Keep in mind that those that attended music colleges back in the 1950's and 60's and maybe the 70's more than likely were classically trained exclusively at those schools. They would search out others for additional needs with teachers such as Jimmy Maxwell, Bobby Shew, Dr. Reinhardt, Carmine Caruso, Don Jacoby, etc

Bill Chase studied with John Coffey and Armando Ghitalla. Byron Stripling studied at Interlochen and graduated from Eastman.

Pete
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peanuts56 wrote:
I heard Al Hirt play Carnival Of Venice. Al was in his early 50s and really impressed me.

I saw a video on Youtube where Al talks about his early musical life - he said he studied strictly classically, it wasn't until after he'd left the Cincinnati Conservatory that he began playing Dixie even though he was born and raised in New Orleans.

It always struck me as oddly incongruous that as much technical prowess as he obviously had that he struggled with the Haydn Concerto, which he surely must have worked on at the conservatory.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maynard went to the Conservatoire de musique du Québec à Montréal on scholarship studying to be a symphonic player.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
peanuts56 wrote:
I heard Al Hirt play Carnival Of Venice. Al was in his early 50s and really impressed me.

I saw a video on Youtube where Al talks about his early musical life - he said he studied strictly classically, it wasn't until after he'd left the Cincinnati Conservatory that he began playing Dixie even though he was born and raised in New Orleans.

It always struck me as oddly incongruous that as much technical prowess as he obviously had that he struggled with the Haydn Concerto, which he surely must have worked on at the conservatory.


I heard that recording also. That was done live if my memory is correct. It's a little painful to hear. He used Carnival Of Venice in his live shows but probably hadn't played The Haydn in years when he recorded it. It was a bit out of his comfort zone I guess.
I recall watching the old Tonight Show Band play a Christmas Medley on the air one night. There was a section where Doc played piccolo trumpet and it was the only time I heard the man play a serious clam.
As great as Al was and Doc is even they have an off night. I missed more notes in a week than they missed in a two lifetimes!
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vwag
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed at how knowledgable Wynton is on classical music and jazz, there is a great readout on this if you start at 19:00. Movie is from 1985.

Start at 19:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLSsbZFukiE
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peanuts56 wrote:
I heard that recording also. That was done live if my memory is correct. It's a little painful to hear. He used Carnival Of Venice in his live shows but probably hadn't played The Haydn in years when he recorded it. It was a bit out of his comfort zone I guess.

I was advised by someone who knew Al Well that Al didn't want to record it but the suits at RCA insisted and that Al regretted making the recording the rest of his life. I'm sure Al realized his straight classical chops were way rusty at that point.

Quote:
I recall watching the old Tonight Show Band play a Christmas Medley on the air one night. There was a section where Doc played piccolo trumpet and it was the only time I heard the man play a serious clam.
As great as Al was and Doc is even they have an off night. I missed more notes in a week than they missed in a two lifetimes!

It might have been the same tune he recorded on an album of Christmas music "Joy To The World" - on the album he does fine. My understanding is it was the only album track he ever did on piccolo. He did the Reiche Abblasen for CBS Sunday Morning after years of using the Don Smithers recording but no one seems to have a copy of it. I've heard it wasn't his best effort but I'd still be curious to hear it. I don't think they used it very long before they had Wynton record his.

The big mega-clam I heard by Doc was during an appearance by Beverly Sills - not the one where she does Let The Bright Seraphim, it was a different appearance. There was a big solo section and right at the most exposed part Doc splattered several notes badly. Later when they had their sit down you could see Doc was perturbed, he said something pretty to close to "I sure wish I could have those clams back". Beverly Sills was gracious and acted like she didn't know what he was talking about - there's no way she didn't hear it.

It's good for us mere mortals to hear the greats step in it on occasion and be reminded that they're walking the same treacherous terrain we are.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwag wrote:
I'm amazed at how knowledgable Wynton is on classical music and jazz, there is a great readout on this if you start at 19:00. Movie is from 1985.

Immensely talented and the man has not only done just about it all, he's very gracious with his time. But what pomposity at times. "Even those who write it don't like it"? Are you kidding me?
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Ozzbo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc and Bev !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFVePXzoUw4
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boog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Ellis, in composition.
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles A. Margulis studied with Ben Klatzkin of the San Francisco Symphony. In 1932 Charles studied with the great Max Schlossberg of the New York Philharmonic. Charlie played with the Sam Lanin organization in NY, the Jean Goldkette Organization and Paul Whiteman's Concert Orchestra.

Charles Magulis was without equal. He was "The King Of The Mountain" of lead trumpet players from 1932 to 1935. He had supreme confidence and played with proper interpretation at sight any piece of music before him; whether concert music, brass band, dance band music, etc. He was gifted with an extremely full-bodied sound yet with enough edge on it to be absolutely brilliant when called for. He played a medium large bore French Besson trumpet with jade buttons made for the Paris exposition. His mouthpiece was a V cup with inside diameter approximately the same as a Bach 3C. The fairly wide, flat rim had a slight bite on the inner diameter.

To hear his tone in it's prime, listen to the 1929 recording of "Concerto in F" by the Paul Whiteman Concet Orchestra.

Charlie in combination with a young trumpet virtuoso Mannie Klein and the versatile trombone of Tommy Dorsey became the busiest free lance brass section in musical history. This triumvirate was broken up in the 1930's when Dorsey left to form his own band amd Manny Klein retired to an active career in California.

Charlie Margulis, however remain active in New York, fully active until his sudden passing in 1967. To the very end he was still on the top of the heap, doing first class work. His last show was the Saturday night Jackie Gleason show for CBS, and his last notes were played in the lead chair after all of those years.
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Last edited by solo soprano on Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MalinTrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Ray Crisara Reply with quote

Check out any Dick Cavett show on you tube. That’s Ray Crisara who played in Toscanini’s NBC Symphony and the Metropolitan Opera. Ray could play anything!
LCM
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LakeTahoeTrpt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peanuts56 wrote:

I recall watching the old Tonight Show Band play a Christmas Medley on the air one night. There was a section where Doc played piccolo trumpet and it was the only time I heard the man play a serious clam.
As great as Al was and Doc is even they have an off night. I missed more notes in a week than they missed in a two lifetimes!


That reminds me of seeing Doc with the Oregon Symphony a couple of years ago. They were performing their great finale with Doc in front of the orchestra wildly conducting with horn in one hand, when it suddenly became apparent that Doc had missed his final entrance! As the great showman he is, he turned to the audience and yelled, "one more time!" Cocking his head back toward the orchestra, he yelled, albeit not as loud, "letter E," counted off, and when they played the finale again, this time his entrance was perfect. I am absolutely sure that most people in the audience had no idea how he had so brazenly erased his mistake, but the members of the orchestra were nearly falling off their chairs laughing.

That night reminded me of two things:

1) Nobody can fill an auditorium with sound like Doc can, even in his 90's.

2) One can make a pretty serious mistake and the audience can still walk away feeling satisfied.
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Ray Crisara Reply with quote

MalinTrumpet wrote:
Check out any Dick Cavett show on you tube. That’s Ray Crisara who played in Toscanini’s NBC Symphony and the Metropolitan Opera. Ray could play anything!
LCM


Jazz trumpeter Pee Wee Erwin worked with Mr. Crisara in 1965 while at CBS in NY. He relates the amusing story about a famous quote from Mr. Crisara.

"Once on the Candid Camera Show I was sitting next to great trumpet virtuoso Ray Crisara. He looked at me mournfully as he took out his horn and remarked. "You know, I'm getting awfully tired of opening this case and never knowing whether I'll find a friend or a bag of worms."
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Rickperon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about Lee Loughnane from the Band "Chicago"?
Over the years he has injected some classical trumpet playing into some of the recordings, beautifully executed IMO.
I love his improv too, always done with such great taste & style. He's got incredible endurance (ever played even a handful of Chicago tunes on a dance or concert?.... not easy IMO) and great range to boot! I really dig his sound too.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what the question refers to but, in actuality, most of us trained after a certain generation, learned both classical and jazz/pop music. You have to learn how to play the trumpet, in and of itself, first and that is usually classical studies and playing.
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

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Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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