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Callet vs Oakes vs Kanstul flugels



 
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Flugelnut
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Callet vs Oakes vs Kanstul flugels Reply with quote

Has anyone on this forum had the opportunity to play the Callet Grand Prix, the Oakes Wild Thing, and the Kanstul 1025 flugels, maybe even side by side?
Preferably the brass bell specimens.
I'm intrigued by their commonality in build and specs, and all three being built by Kanstul.
If there are any outstanding differences in sound and intonation, they would I think be the result of specific bell branch and bell tapers.
Thank you for any input.
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Don Herman rev2
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I am a long-term fan of Flip Oakes, the man and his horns, so am quite biased in that regard.

I am not sure which Callet model I tried years ago when I was looking for a flugelhorn. It was a nice horn, good intonation, but the larger bore led me to push it and it sounded too "trumpety" to me. The WT sounded very dark, which is what I wanted (does not have the "lighter" flugel sound of a Couesnon etc.) The 1525 was about as dark or maybe a hair darker, but I found the WT to be "faster" to respond, a hair better intonation, and the valves were a bit smoother/faster than the Kanstul I tried. (Why faster valves? Don't know, unless unit-to-unit variance or maybe Flip's enhancement process helped.) I would have been very happy with the 1525, but in every way the WT was just a bit better to me. The Kanstul Chicago was also a nice horn in the "lighter" sound flavor.

I also liked the Yamahas, though the standard and Z models played differently to me, hated the Bach I tried, thought the Couesnon a little harder to play and worse intonation than the rest, don't remember the others I tried.

This is all very subjective, natch. I spent close to a year trying different horns and deciding the sound and feel I wanted in a flugelhorn. I found generally the variance among flugelhorns was greater than that of an average batch of trumpets. Very personal choice, and others will probably have a completely different opinion.

HTH - Don
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Flip Oakes
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Joined: 20 Feb 2002
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Location: Oceanside, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On this page there are sound samples of me playing the Wild Thing Flugelhorn. At the time of these recordings I was playing the brass bell, however the Copper Bell is what I'm now playing, and it's a bit warmer sounding. I was also playing my standard #1 flugelhorn mpc. on these recordings.

https://flipoakes.com/flugelhorns/wild-thing-flugelhorn/

Yes, the Wild Thing is different in design from any other the other flugelhorns made by Kanstul.

All the Best!
Flip Oakes
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fraserhutch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Kanstul 1025. I traded it to get My Wild Thing flugel. I have not regretted the decision.
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tptguy
Jerome Callet Forum Moderator


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned original Callet SC flug, Callet Grand Prix, and Kanstul 1025. And I've tried the Oakes on two occasions. The SC was powerful so it was good for big band. But I wanted a less brilliant sound with more finesse for the jazz combos I primarily work with. I agree with many that consider the 1025 the best all-purpose production flug around. Flip Oakes tweaks them in a direction opposite what I want. But Paul Caccia tweaked one that I found especially nice. Jerry Callet then worked on the horn and took Paul's tweaks up several further notches. Jerry changed the bracing, improved the 3rd slide tuning, and most significantly, designed a new leadpipe. This horn is now the Callet Grand Prix flug and I've been very, very pleased. Intonation is actually in league with his NY Soloist trumpet, and that says a lot. I have no desire to tweak this flug, 1st ever.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned both the Kanstul 1025 and brass Wild Thing. I have never experienced a Callet horn of any kind. So, What are the differences?

The stock 1025 uses a Small Morse tapered mouthpiece. I bought a French taper tuning bit from Kanstul and mouthpieces to go with it. The difference was pretty dramatic. The Small Morse taper gives the horn a much more centered and compact timbre compared to the French taper. When I asked Zig about the switch, he said that acoustically the 1025 was designed for the French taper. I felt the horn played and sounded better with the French setup.

When I traded my 1025 (with the French taper setup) for the Wild Thing, the only real difference was that the WT didn't turn trumpety above the staff and didn't back up the little bit that the Kanstul did up there at the same part of the scale. I believe this is the result of the multi-radius bend at the bottom of the bell bow that the Kanstul has.

As I understand it, the 1025 fits the European form for flugelhorn where it is designed to produce that edge in the tone up in the high range. The Wild Thing is designed to produce an American jazz sound that stays dark throughout its range.

As an addendum, I eventually purchased Flip's copper bell version of his flugelhorn. It has a bit wider rim at 6-3/8" as well as the copper bell and branch. It has a little less density to its core and lighter response.
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