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take2 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 68 Location: Watertown, MA
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 pm Post subject: When to open the throat? |
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Are there any general guidelines for when it might be helpful to go with a more open throat than a stock #27 for example?
Thanks, _________________ Jeff |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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When opening the throat would improve whatever aspect you aren't satisfied with.
What are you trying to handle? _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: |
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One perspective is "never". You might ruin the balance of that piece and rather should get a piece with, for example, a larger backbore or a different cup.
Depends on what mouthpiece you're playing.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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If you can't play loud enough or high enough, always open it up |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sharkbaitboi wrote: | If you can't play loud enough or high enough, always open it up |
Why do you do this? You are a pest. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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djpearlman Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2002 Posts: 461 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sharkbaitboi is so bored with this site. It will be good to see him gone... _________________ Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
- Andalusia Cornet
- Carolbrass Pocket Trumpet
- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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djpearlman wrote: | Sharkbaitboi is so bored with this site. It will be good to see him gone... |
bored? |
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Al Innella Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Levittown NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:40 am Post subject: Re: When to open the throat? |
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take2 wrote: | Are there any general guidelines for when it might be helpful to go with a more open throat than a stock #27 for example?
Thanks, |
Never open the throat on your mouthpiece. Buy another mouthpiece that's the same make and model,have that one opened.This way if it doesn't work out,you still have your original piece. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:04 am Post subject: Re: When to open the throat? |
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Al Innella wrote: | take2 wrote: | Are there any general guidelines for when it might be helpful to go with a more open throat than a stock #27 for example?
Thanks, |
Never open the throat on your mouthpiece. Buy another mouthpiece that's the same make and model,have that one opened.This way if it doesn't work out,you still have your original piece. |
The way I was told to do it, you buy TWO more mouthpieces of the same make and model, so you still always have an original. So now you have identical mouthpieces A, B, and C.
Open the throat of B one notch. If this plays better, open the throat of C two notches. If that plays better, open the throat of B two notches. That way you're "leapfrogging" them. Eventually, you'll open it up too much and the mouthpiece will be a paperweight. The other mouthpiece is your keeper!
Cheers - Turkle _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: Re: When to open the throat? |
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Al Innella wrote: | take2 wrote: | Are there any general guidelines for when it might be helpful to go with a more open throat than a stock #27 for example?
Thanks, |
Never open the throat on your mouthpiece. Buy another mouthpiece that's the same make and model,have that one opened.This way if it doesn't work out,you still have your original piece. |
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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take2 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 68 Location: Watertown, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies so far. Before I posted my question I did a search on "open and throat" (in Mouthpieces) and saw many the "how to" discussions which are very helpful.
What I didn't find were any "general" discussions on what benefits opening up might provide - what problems might a too tight throat cause? Which "problems" would opening the throat tend to fix?
I didn't want this to me just about me, but to give it context - I play a Curry 3C. which is a "loose" 27 throat according to Curry - and an ML .460 bore Bb.
I understand there could be many factors contributing to a "problem", but what I'm experiencing is difficulty in the low middle and low register - inconsistent response; a feeling like I have to blow too much to get the notes to speak rather than have the notes just fall out at an easy volume; sound is a bit airy (thin?) unless I lean on it more than I want to.
I tend to be "it's the Indian, not the arrow" kind of guy, but I do believe using the right equipment is important, if not essential so I'm curious what a throat tweak might do. So, are my "symptoms" something a more open throat might help aleviate?
By the way, I would only have an experienced shop do this for me - Osmun is closest in my case and I know I can order a Curry 3C. with a 26 throat so I can alternate opening them if I need to take it further.
Thanks again - _________________ Jeff |
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rmch Regular Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Wouldn't opening the throat force you to blow harder in all registers, as it would take more energy to set up the sine wave in the mouthpiece? How would opening the throat help your issue? _________________ 1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
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There are some of us who have the ability to put a lot of air through a trumpet without really working too hard to do so. We tend to like very little resistance in our trumpets and mouthpieces. I favor large bore, small resistance trumpets and large throat, large backbore mouthpieces.
Therefore, if the OP feels like he's blowing up against a brick wall, maybe it's time to open up the throat.
That said, I have learned the hard way that the cup, throat and backbore of a mouthpiece all work together. It appears to me that the diameter of the throat is just one of the factors. As I understand it, the taper (for lack of a better word) of the transition between the cup and the throat, and between the throat and the backbore, make a big difference, at least as much as the diameter of the throat.
Being a tinkerer by nature, I have had the throats of a few mouthpieces opened up, always by a professional, and with mixed results. I have concluded that it makes better sense to speak with someone who makes mouthpieces for a living and discuss with them what you are using, what you like about it and what you don't like about it. I've had good luck with Jim New and Warburton, but from the posts I read on this forum, there are several very competent designers/manufacturers of mouthpieces that could point you in the right direction.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Adjusting the gap may alleviate what you're having difficulty with.
You may consider having your mpc cut for sleeves. A #5 is about what your shank diameter is, so you could test various sleeves and find that dialing the gap handles it. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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the best time to open the throat is:
1) when you have zero response issues
2) when you crescendo from pp to ff the pitch stays the same
3) your articulation is clear and consistent is all normal volumes and registers
4) you upper register does not drift sharp
5) your lower register does not drift flat
6) you would like a bit FFF and ppp, without sounding more aggressive
these are very good guidelines. Opening the throat almost never fixes a problem. It just gives more dynamic range for players with no issues. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:15 am Post subject: |
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It’s something I normally don’t do, but recently I needed an orchestral sounding cornet mouthpiece. I bought a cheap German 1c copy but it was far too tight. It was not speaking easily and the lower dynamics were difficult. So I opened it up slightly and found it improved it so I took it out a bit more and then reshaped the entry and exit points to the throat. It sounds great for a mouthpiece that cost £11!
The back story here is that I hate carrying lots of equipment and if I am doing one trumpet piece in a cornet concert I don’t feel like carrying the extra instrument around. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:57 am Post subject: |
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What you describe could be leaky valves.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:18 am Post subject: |
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VetPsychWars wrote: | What you describe could be leaky valves.
Tom |
You need to use the thickest oil you can find for your valves. might be slow action but theyll never leak again |
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Harry Hilgers Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:16 am Post subject: |
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djpearlman wrote: | Sharkbaitboi is so bored with this site. It will be good to see him gone... |
+1 |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Harry Hilgers wrote: | djpearlman wrote: | Sharkbaitboi is so bored with this site. It will be good to see him gone... |
+1 |
This sort of person feeds off attention, ignoring him will probably hasten his departure.
Which I just failed to do by posting this.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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