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Recovery Style



 
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Auraix
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Joined: 25 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Recovery Style Reply with quote

I aspire to be a member of a Drum Corps sometime in my next few years, but that is looking dim do to the current state of my chops, which have been growing increasingly harder and more painful to play high notes, if they even come out.

So when it comes to recovery, should I take a full day or two off or should I focus on just long tones for a couple of days?
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From your description I don't think the issue is "recovery." Playing the trumpet is not a painful experience when correct fundamentals are employed. If you are suffering what you describe then the approach you need to take is to discover what's causing the problem rather than employing a strategy to just recover from the problem and then create the problem all over again and then lay off again to recover in an endless cycle.

The solution to what you're describing is not to change what you're playing. The solution is to change how you're playing it.
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Auraix
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem was that I tried to do too much too quickly. I would spend from 7 to 8:30, 11:30-12:30, and 3:00-7:00 practicing with relatively no limits, which is the main reason my chops are dead, or at least I believe.

2 months ago my range was fine, I was playing high C's with no problem, but now I am starting to push into the mouthpiece to get a failure of a high note out, which I decided to take down until I recover.

I'm asking if there is a better way to recover. Is long tones best or should I just stay away from my instrument for a full day?
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brassmusician
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Joined: 25 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes a complete rest is what is best for recovery. However, usually I like to do some light playing on a recovery day, which I view as a delayed warm-down from the day before and a warmup for future days of playing. It helps get rid of muscle stiffness. I wouldn't do long tones or slurs, just low slurred chromatics. Depending on your situation, your chops may need more than one day of light or no playing to come back to good form. It could take a week or two for your ducks to start to line up in a row again (hopefully not, but it can happen).

If I have stupidly hammered the crap out of my chops I have used ice to reduce swelling and occasionally hot alternating with cold to get rid of persistent soreness but that is for an extreme situation.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auraix wrote:
My problem was that I tried to do too much too quickly. I would spend from 7 to 8:30, 11:30-12:30, and 3:00-7:00 practicing with relatively no limits, which is the main reason my chops are dead, or at least I believe.

2 months ago my range was fine, I was playing high C's with no problem, but now I am starting to push into the mouthpiece to get a failure of a high note out, which I decided to take down until I recover.

I'm asking if there is a better way to recover. Is long tones best or should I just stay away from my instrument for a full day?


If the problem is overworked chops then the best solution is to rest them until they're back to normal. Once they're back to normal you should resume practicing but should increase your routine gradually, starting in the lower and midrange registers and playing no louder than mf for a few days. You need to stop any time your chops are hurting or responding poorly. Continuing to beat overworked chops just makes things worse and increases the recovery period.
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Recovery Style Reply with quote

Auraix wrote:
I aspire to be a member of a Drum Corps sometime in my next few years, but that is looking dim do to the current state of my chops, which have been growing increasingly harder and more painful to play high notes, if they even come out.

So when it comes to recovery, should I take a full day or two off or should I focus on just long tones for a couple of days?


Trumpet playing in the upper register requires a balanced "diet". Over-doing it one day or over a series of days is not s good way to improve one's performance.

When in doubt? Take two days off. Your chops learn little when they're swollen and bruised.

Next, I'm always suspicious of mouthpiece selection. Just the mere fact that you didn't mention what mouthpiece you use makes me extra concerned. Let's look at the subject of "equipment" from the lens of a critical thinker. In C/T we first ask questions. Only by asking questions can we guarantee ourselves of finding solutions pertaining our problems. First question,

"What mouthpiece do most of the pros who play outstanding high notes use?

Answer: Probably the greatest currently living high note artist today is Lynn Nicholson. His mouthpiece? It's a shallow one with a smaller inner rim diameter than what he originally began his career on some 46+
years ago.

The man has a working G above double high C and can play musically even higher than that. Basically? He owns the upper register. Question no 2,

"What can we extrapolate from Lynn's mouthpiece selection and success"?

Since the greatest living high note artist is well known for using a shallow piece? Then those of us who aren't as strong as he (which is all of us!) are probably advised to choose similarly shallow equipment.

From my experience the mouthpiece which allows one to clock the most practice and performance time in the upper register is also the piece most likely for you to improve on the quickest".

There are many other ideas, suggestions, advice and comments which may help you conquer the upper register. However in the meantime?

Let's not handicap ourselves by using standard Bach mouthpieces. The typical Bach 7C & 3C are deep pieces with sharp inner rim edges. Unless the upper register comes easily to you? (and from your words it apparently does not)?

Instead select a mouthiece designed for good lead work. Such as the Schilke 11A. Other manufacturers make good lead pieces too. Marcinkiewicz and Yamaha both make a iece designed for Bobby Shew. They're not bad. Also, Lynn sells fantastic mouthpieces! However if you can get a hold of a cloned copy of the ancient snd discontinued "Al Cass" mouthpieces? You'll also be ahead of the game. Steve Cass has duplicated some of his late father's fantastic line. My recommendation is to start on the 3x4 or 3x5.

The Cass pieces not only made the upper register easier to blow but tend to correct the typically erroneous sound production that the average trumpet player produces. To be sure, the same is also true fir Lynn's "X-Piece".

When in doubt? See Lynn. Plus he's a great guy.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re asking basically the same thing you asked in the Fundamentals forum.
No one here can diagnose what’s going on with 100% accuracy, YOU NEED A PRIVATE TEACHER. My suspicion is that you need to rest, as in either no playing at all, or very easy, low volume gentle playing. But again, even though I think you need some complete rest (you are not going to regress much if any with a few days off), without seeing and hearing you play, no one can really say for certain.

Hey, I’m not chastising you for asking questions here, but your best bet is an in-person, or possibly skype teacher. There are qualified guys here who do skype lessons if you can’t find someone local.

Do you have a teacher now? If not, do you REALLY want to correct your problem?

If you do it’s your best bet.

Brad
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GideonJazz
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Joined: 08 Oct 2018
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Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everyone who as posted. You're killing your chops, and from the looks of things, you're just playing high notes without focusing on the core of the horn. I would also recommend getting a private teacher so you can get an objective look at what you are doing.
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kyleownsyour
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Joined: 13 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something else you can do is use something like Arnicare on your lips if they are fatigued, it will help with recovery a little
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyleownsyour wrote:
Something else you can do is use something like Arnicare on your lips if they are fatigued, it will help with recovery a little


After reading my prior post in it's typically overly word fashion? Decided to reword it here,

There is usually no benefit to producing high notes on a large, overly deep cupped mouthpiece. Worse still? These kinds of pieces tend to have sharp inner rim edges. So they not only require far more energy from lips and air support (but esp lips) but will carve your chops up at the same time!

Then add to this effect the tendency of sharp rimmed mouthpieces to cut off circulation to the lips? And you have the current modern nightmare of popular mouthpoece selection.

You might also add up the hours and days spent re-habbing the embouchure from the swelling, pain and damage. You then have what I call a tragic waste of time. However had the trumpet player simply experimented with a shallower piece but with a very open free blowing back-bore and throat? He'd have already developed into a most competent lead player.
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kyleownsyour
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Joined: 13 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
kyleownsyour wrote:
Something else you can do is use something like Arnicare on your lips if they are fatigued, it will help with recovery a little


After reading my prior post in it's typically overly word fashion? Decided to reword it here,

There is usually no benefit to producing high notes on a large, overly deep cupped mouthpiece. Worse still? These kinds of pieces tend to have sharp inner rim edges. So they not only require far more energy from lips and air support (but esp lips) but will carve your chops up at the same time!

Then add to this effect the tendency of sharp rimmed mouthpieces to cut off circulation to the lips? And you have the current modern nightmare of popular mouthpoece selection.

You might also add up the hours and days spent re-habbing the embouchure from the swelling, pain and damage. You then have what I call a tragic waste of time. However had the trumpet player simply experimented with a shallower piece but with a very open free blowing back-bore and throat? He'd have already developed into a most competent lead player.


I believe all I suggested was using something to aid in muscle recovery, I'm afraid I don't understand the reason the mouthpiece lecture is directed at me.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyleownsyour wrote:
Lionel wrote:
kyleownsyour wrote:
Something else you can do is use something like Arnicare on your lips if they are fatigued, it will help with recovery a little


After reading my prior post in it's typically overly word fashion? Decided to reword it here,

There is usually no benefit to producing high notes on a large, overly deep cupped mouthpiece. Worse still? These kinds of pieces tend to have sharp inner rim edges. So they not only require far more energy from lips and air support (but esp lips) but will carve your chops up at the same time!

Then add to this effect the tendency of sharp rimmed mouthpieces to cut off circulation to the lips? And you have the current modern nightmare of popular mouthpoece selection.

You might also add up the hours and days spent re-habbing the embouchure from the swelling, pain and damage. You then have what I call a tragic waste of time. However had the trumpet player simply experimented with a shallower piece but with a very open free blowing back-bore and throat? He'd have already developed into a most competent lead player.


I believe all I suggested was using something to aid in muscle recovery, I'm afraid I don't understand the reason the mouthpiece lecture is directed at me.


Looks to me like he quoted the wrong post, your comments were about a topical lip balm, correct?

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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kyleownsyour
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Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
kyleownsyour wrote:
Lionel wrote:
kyleownsyour wrote:
Something else you can do is use something like Arnicare on your lips if they are fatigued, it will help with recovery a little


After reading my prior post in it's typically overly word fashion? Decided to reword it here,

There is usually no benefit to producing high notes on a large, overly deep cupped mouthpiece. Worse still? These kinds of pieces tend to have sharp inner rim edges. So they not only require far more energy from lips and air support (but esp lips) but will carve your chops up at the same time!

Then add to this effect the tendency of sharp rimmed mouthpieces to cut off circulation to the lips? And you have the current modern nightmare of popular mouthpoece selection.

You might also add up the hours and days spent re-habbing the embouchure from the swelling, pain and damage. You then have what I call a tragic waste of time. However had the trumpet player simply experimented with a shallower piece but with a very open free blowing back-bore and throat? He'd have already developed into a most competent lead player.


I believe all I suggested was using something to aid in muscle recovery, I'm afraid I don't understand the reason the mouthpiece lecture is directed at me.


Looks to me like he quoted the wrong post, your comments were about a topical lip balm, correct?

Brad


Not really a lip balm, its more for the muscles around the lips! I usually don't put it on my lips at all. Its a gel that helps recover tired or overused muscles, its also good for bruises.
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