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Experience with Bach or Schilke Cornet



 
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zumkehr
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Location: Interlaken, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Experience with Bach or Schilke Cornet Reply with quote

Hello Cornet player
I have a Bch Cornet Stard. ML u d a Schilke XA1. Do you have experience in the comparison?
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like trumpets there is a variance of tone from brand to brand and instrument to instrument.
It may depend upon what you're looking for in playability and sound.

I have a ML Bach 184 Shephard's Crook, that I love. I've had it for a long time, and when I started using or needing cornet more often, I opted to have it worked on vs. looking for a new/different cornet. (Thumb sadlle, Silver with gold trim, including the bell, + essentially what Osmun Music calls "blue Printing") Bach's are not cherished in the Brass Band world, maybe the tone is too American. Being a trumpeter that plays mostly other Bach's, I appreciate the comfort level-it feels like a Bach.
From what I understand, one of the few cornet designs that has a "gap"..

I think mine plays wonderfully, with a warm dark sound working very well in Brass Quintets, Cornet rolls in Conert Band, solos, and yes, I've use it in a Brass Band with great success.

I do also play a Schilke Eb Soprano in my local Brass Band. Not the instrument you were asking about, but I'd say that there is something different/unique about the Shilcke sound. The Eb, even with the beryllium bell, can be a little zingy, almost piccolo trumpet-like, at times. Schilke valves are awesome though-I wish all my other instruments valves were like this cornet's.
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Last edited by zaferis on Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: experience with bach and schilke cornet Reply with quote

Hello and welcome,
I have played the Bach and own an XA1. The Bach plays warmer out of the box and my Schilke can have a warmth with a deeper cup mouthpiece. The Schilke is lighter and a bit brighter in timbre than the Bach. Both are good cornets, I prefer the intonation and feel of the Schilke.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.


What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?

Cheers,

John
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
TKSop wrote:
For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.


What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?

Cheers,

John



I would like to add the Getzen 3850 (custom)- somewhat darker, but not as easy to play as the Eterna. Valves magnificient. And of course a suitable mpc, deep, preferable V cupish.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
TKSop wrote:
For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.


What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?

Cheers,

John


Yes the Besson 928 sovereign and 2028 prestige, Yamaha Neo/Xeno, Smith-Watkins, Geneva, the older Boosey & Hawkes sovereign (921) and a few others.

The Getzens eterna plays great but they're not popular with bands here
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
TKSop wrote:
For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.


What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?

Cheers,

John


Yes the Besson 928 sovereign and 2028 prestige, Yamaha Neo/Xeno, Smith-Watkins, Geneva, the older Boosey & Hawkes sovereign (921) and a few others.

The Getzens eterna plays great but they're not popular with bands here


Hi

I'd agree with the above, and would add the Yamaha Maestro, the predecessor of the Xeno, and maybe the large bore Willson models.

Going back to the original topic, I love my Bach 184ML cornet, and think that it has a very nice tone, but I don't think that it blends very well in a section consisting predominantly of the above cornets.

All the best

Lou
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Flip Oakes
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Post from several years ago..

https://flipoakes.com/wild-thing-short-cornet-review-from-australia/

https://flipoakes.com/cornets/wild-thing-short-cornet/

Flip Oakes

John Mohan wrote:
TKSop wrote:
For what use?

They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them.


What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?

Cheers,

John

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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Experience with Bach or Schilke Cornet Reply with quote

zumkehr wrote:
Hello Cornet player
I have a Bch Cornet Stard. ML u d a Schilke XA1. Do you have experience in the comparison?


I much preferred the Schilke XA1 (which I played) to Bach shepherd crooks. Form the two or three pretty poor Bach's that I had played, I assumed that the design was flawed until I played one 15+ years ago that was excellent.

I heard the Amsterdam Staff Band of the Salvation Army (in the USA) about that same time -- they were playing matched Smith-Watkins cornets (lower instruments, except t'bones, were Willson). I talked to some of the cornet players at break or afterwards about their instruments. They loved the S-W's but said that most of the section preferred their personal XA1's which they were not permitted to play in the band.


-Denny
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matthes93401
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your money there a better playing choices.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In British Brass bands people usually play one of these:

Besson Prestige
Besson Sovereign
Yamaha - Neo or Xeno
Geneva Symphony

You will find other cornets, but 90% of them will be these models.

Getzen had no distribution in the UK for many years and it only has a small presence now. You don't see many of them.

I had a Bach 184ML and struggled to make it work in the brass band setting. A friend had a large bore 181 long model and it was surprisingly better in the brass band.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GordonH wrote:
In British Brass bands people usually play one of these:

Besson Prestige
Besson Sovereign
Yamaha - Neo or Xeno
Geneva Symphony

Hi GordonH

Yes, I completely agree.


You will find other cornets, but 90% of them will be these models.

In my band, we also have a player on a Yamaha Maestro and a Willson Philip Cobb Signature model:

http://www.rosehillinstruments.co.uk/acatalog/Willson-Celebration-460L--large-bore--460L.html

I haven't personally played a Willson cornet, but this player was previously a long time Besson 928 Sovereign player, and without a direct comparison of the two, he sounds the same on the Willson as his previous Sovereign.

Getzen had no distribution in the UK for many years and it only has a small presence now. You don't see many of them.

Yes, I don't see many Getzen cornets either.

I had a Bach 184ML and struggled to make it work in the brass band setting. A friend had a large bore 181 long model and it was surprisingly better in the brass band.

I too found it difficult to make my Bach 184ML work in a brass band setting. It is interesting what you say about a 181L being better in a brass band, but it is probably not surprising. When I play my Bach 184ML with a Bach 3C it sounds pretty much the same as my Bach 37 trumpet with a 3C, just
a little warmer and richer. I have one old recording of me playing orchestral extracts/baroque repertoire, I believe with a Bach 3C, and I myself can't work out whether I am playing my Bach trumpet or cornet, whereas even with a 3C, my Yamaha Xeno cornet still sounds distinctly cornet-like.

Considering how similar the Bach short model cornet and trumpet sound already, and that a Bach long model cornet probably falls between the two in terms of sound, and that I have heard on quite a few separate occasions that the Bach 184L is more British Brass Band-like than the 184ML, I think that it is perfectly reasonable that the Bach 181L is more brass band-like than the Bach 184ML.


Best wishes

Lou

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Trumpets:
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Bach Strad 180ML/37
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- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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Cornets:
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Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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