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Adapting to C trumpet from Bb


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jcopella
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Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 29
Location: Orlando, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the Cichowiz Long Tone Flow Studies book with the CD and do the whole series with pauses, call-and-response style. Tom Rolfs plays each one on B-flat, then you play (a step down on C trumpet) matching his pitch and sound/intonation, as much as possible.

Edit to add: yes, you'll have to play down into the pedal register for the last two sets of each series (concert F and concert E). That's ok. Try to make 'em sound like the B-flat sounds on the "real" notes. They won't, but try anyway.

Be patient and do the whole set, without stressing over the range -- go up to concert F or whatever if you're not there yet with the upper register on the C. This routine takes a good little while (30-35 minutes?) but it's very effective at adapting your ears and the rest of your playing mechanics (air flow, compression, tongue position, etc.) to the C trumpet. If I've been away from the C trumpet for a while and have to come back to it, I find about a weeks worth of this is very good at getting everything put together again.

And yes, lots of Arban's, but front of the book, not back of the book.
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thecoast
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 138
Location: San Bernardino County, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomba51 wrote:
Alternate between the 2 horns, playing the same pitches. For example, play a 2nd line G on the Bb. Then play the same pitch on the C, which will be an F. Do this for EVERYTHING you practice, long tones, scales, Arban, Clark, easy songs, everything. Play it on the Bb, then play the same pitches on the C. The sound and the feel will be different, but the pitches will be the same. You'll get the hang of it in no time.


Someone else wrote that one should start playing on the C with a Bb scale. Basically what you said above in terms of strategy. Of all the advice I've read, this sound remapping on the C has been the most helpful. The other things like practice (obvious) and transposing (good skill to develop) are good advice in general, but they don't help at initially developing a good sound. Without a good sound, you just don't feel like practicing, much less transposing.

Your strategy to alternate playing of the same pitches on both the Bb and the C horns is the clearest explanation of remapping I've read. Thanks to you and to whomever said to start playing the Bb scale on the C to get the feel of a Bb, switching between Bb and C is a simple process. Now I'm not afraid of picking up the C and sounding like I'm tone deaf. The advice has really has been transformative.
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thesplitmeister
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Joined: 31 Dec 2004
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Location: Manchester- England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d use a two pronged approach, using an active and a passive form of practice. For active practice I’d use scales (Gabor Tarkovi’s book is exceptional for this!!) with a drone. Slow and intense focus of consistency of sound and tuning. Learning which notes need back fingering, which can be guided into place by player manipulation etc. This is tiring physically and mentally so I wouldn’t do that for long periods at the start. That’s where the passive approach comes in.
I read years ago a discussion with Wynton Marsalis about his practice and he devoted time each day to playing Clarke studies at a “conversational dynamic” (I LOVE this phrase). He likened the benefits to that of letting a car engine just tick over before going for a long drive to let it warm up and align properly. I find I can do 20-30 minutes of calm, quiet, conversational Clarke studies and it has very little detrimental impact on chops and it lines me up really well with whatever horn I want to be lined up with. If you start playing C more often then you won’t need this long to align of course!!
The benefits of these two approaches are because when we play there are times we need to be active and lead the musical line and tuning/timing etc. but there are also times when we want our body just to do what we want it to do and we don’t want to think about the mechanics, just the music and so having trained our auto-pilot we’re more able to do that.
Some practical things to add as a side note. Getting a similar mouthpiece but one with a larger throat will massively help your tuning on a C. Practice half bend steps, it’s like magic for linking with the horn. You’re well on your way I hope some of this info helps make it even easier!
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Shark01
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Joined: 10 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, if I was in a relationship with a C trumpet, my Facebook profile would read “it’s complicated”.

I bought a nice used one (Schilke S22HD) and I just didn’t get it. One key difference but damn it was difficult. At one point I put it in a corner on “time out” for a year.

Then I bought a Music Minus One CD of light classical music accompanied by an organ. It so happened that all the music was in Bb and C. So I tried again to just have fun. And the way the C trumpet sound meshed with the organ was what opened up what I felt like it was good at.

So I don’t play etudes or Clarke technical studies with it, I just use it with other instruments (usually in a play along mode).
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cbtj51
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Joined: 24 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbtj51 wrote:

It took a while to get used to a different pitch from what I initially expected due to a lifelong Bb acclimatization... A few years in, it's become second nature, I hardly notice the difference... It is a joy to play.


I wrote this in 2018 when the C trumpet was still very new to me!

Now, having logged much time on C in regular practice, hours of rehearsals, and many, many public performances, I am at least as enthusiastic regarding every opportunity to play my 229/25A. Transposition, almost an unknown (to me) skill before 2018 has become almost routine.

But, I have discovered that, at least for me, keeping the C trumpet in my weekly practice routine, especially during the periods that a C trumpet is not required in performance is an absolute must so that transition remains 2nd nature. Fortunately, I get so much joy from playing this instrument that I can hardly wait to play it again and again!
Kindest regards,

Mike
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tomba51
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Joined: 24 Nov 2001
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Location: Hilton Head, SC

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecoast wrote:
tomba51 wrote:
Alternate between the 2 horns, playing the same pitches. For example, play a 2nd line G on the Bb. Then play the same pitch on the C, which will be an F. Do this for EVERYTHING you practice, long tones, scales, Arban, Clark, easy songs, everything. Play it on the Bb, then play the same pitches on the C. The sound and the feel will be different, but the pitches will be the same. You'll get the hang of it in no time.


Someone else wrote that one should start playing on the C with a Bb scale. Basically what you said above in terms of strategy. Of all the advice I've read, this sound remapping on the C has been the most helpful. The other things like practice (obvious) and transposing (good skill to develop) are good advice in general, but they don't help at initially developing a good sound. Without a good sound, you just don't feel like practicing, much less transposing.

Your strategy to alternate playing of the same pitches on both the Bb and the C horns is the clearest explanation of remapping I've read. Thanks to you and to whomever said to start playing the Bb scale on the C to get the feel of a Bb, switching between Bb and C is a simple process. Now I'm not afraid of picking up the C and sounding like I'm tone deaf. The advice has really has been transformative.


Thanks for the kind words.
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