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Edwards X-17


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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Edwards X-17 Reply with quote

Anyone out there own or had a chance to spend some time with the Edwards X-17? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this horn's ease of play, tone, suitability for big band, concert band This is from the perspective of an amateur player struggling to come back after many decades of wandering in the non-trumpet playing woods.


Cheers
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played the X-17 and think that it is a terrific horn that would meet a wide range of playing needs.

Edwards trumpets are not as easy to find/try as Bach Strads or Yamaha Xenos, so it might be worth a visit to one of the big shows -- ITG, NTC, Midwest Clinic, NAMM, etc. -- to try the X-17 along with other horns to see what works best for you. If you contact Edwards they can tell you what other shows they go to (WMEA, etc) and perhaps even what stores might have an X-17 in stock.

Edit to add unsolicited advice: Give some thought to whether "now" is the right time for you to get a new/different horn. If you are in the early stages of returning to trumpet playing, and your current horn is mechanically sound, you might be better off waiting a bit until you regain your form and have a better sense of what will work well for you. That may take a while.

Good luck!
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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Edwards X-17 Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, Dayton. Yes, they're scarce here as well. As a follow up, do you have a sense of comparable horns to the X-17? My short list includes Schilke B1 or B6 and a couple of Shires trumpets...perhaps medium bore Destino.

I'm pushing 70 and although I'm in good health, time is not on my side. I've played a few horns and although my vintage Silver Flair is in great shape, trumpets like the Yamaha Bobby Shew and Bach Commercial seem to facilitate my playing so I'm looking for a helping hand, along with regular lessons and practice.

Thanks again

Cheers
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As a follow up, do you have a sense of comparable horns to the X-17? My short list includes Schilke B1 or B6 and a couple of Shires trumpets...perhaps medium bore Destino.


It's tough to offer a useful recommendation but one of models in the Bach 37 or 43 families, the Shires A or B families (I think the Destino III is based on the A model taper) might have some of the characteristics you are looking for in terms of sound/blow. None of them have those wonderful Getzen valves though!

Really, the best thing you can possibly do is to go to a music store specializing in trumpets (Thompson, Dillon, ACB, etc) or one of the big shows and try as many horns as possible. You might be surprised at what works best for you.

For instance, if you are thinking that a medium bore horn might help meet your needs, you are unlikely to find one in most stores. Whereas if you go to one of the big shows you could try the Destino III M bore, the B&S Exquisite EXB (Malcolm McNabb's horn), Jupiter 1600i XO (Roger Ingram) and other medium bore horns.

Good luck with your search!
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: Edwards X-17 Reply with quote

Winnipeg wrote:
Anyone out there own or had a chance to spend some time with the Edwards X-17? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this horn's ease of play, tone, suitability for big band, concert band This is from the perspective of an amateur player struggling to come back after many decades of wandering in the non-trumpet playing woods.


Cheers


Hi there,

I think I should make the point that any of the high end trumpets you have spoken about in this thread are not going to improve your playing (or only by an insignificant amount) as you, and please correct me if I'm wrong, do not possess a level of ability to make the difference noticeable. So many players have this belief that things will be easier or sound better if they buy the most expensive trumpet they can find. Truth be told, unless you are playing at a high level, play very resonantly across a consistent large range and require response at the extremes of dynamics, these instruments will not offer you anything you don't already have (or lack). One analogy is that you can buy a car that'll do 200mph, but if you don't have the capability of driving anywhere at more than 30mph then any car will get you to the same place at the same time. So from a playing perspective, a fancy trumpet isn't going to make you sound any better, only consistent intelligent practice will do that.

However, if you simply desire to own a beautiful high end trumpet because you want to gawp at it and polish it, like a work of art, then by all means it is your prerogative to go and buy one/many, but in which case the actual playing characteristics are somewhat irrelevant and you needn't be too concerned about them.

Another analogy; if you only use your phone to make calls and send text messages, and don't have use for the myriad other functions, there is no difference between a dated 'brick' phone and the fanciest iPhone on the market, other than the aesthetic appeal. Essentially the same story with your trumpet.

This post is made in good faith with the best intent. I understand some of the content may sound patronising, but in fact is meant with the upmost maturity and respect, and is based upon the OP's comments throughout the thread.

Thanks
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tomdug
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Edwards X-17 Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
Winnipeg wrote:
Anyone out there own or had a chance to spend some time with the Edwards X-17? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this horn's ease of play, tone, suitability for big band, concert band This is from the perspective of an amateur player struggling to come back after many decades of wandering in the non-trumpet playing woods.


Cheers



This post is made in good faith with the best intent. I understand some of the content may sound patronising, but in fact is meant with the upmost maturity and respect, and is based upon the OP's comments throughout the thread.

Thanks



Dear LSOfanboy,

Despite your claims to the contrary, your comment is patronizing and disrespectful. He's almost 70. He wants a nice trumpet. Why belittle that?

In another thread you berated someone for asking for information regarding two different horns. You implied that his question was not "intelligent " or "stimulating" enough.

In yet another thread you scolded people who listed the horns they own.

What's wrong with you? This is not Reddit. Don't be a troll.


Last edited by tomdug on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Edwards X-17 Reply with quote

tomdug wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:
Winnipeg wrote:
Anyone out there own or had a chance to spend some time with the Edwards X-17? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this horn's ease of play, tone, suitability for big band, concert band This is from the perspective of an amateur player struggling to come back after many decades of wandering in the non-trumpet playing woods.


Cheers



This post is made in good faith with the best intent. I understand some of the content may sound patronising, but in fact is meant with the upmost maturity and respect, and is based upon the OP's comments throughout the thread.

Thanks



Dear LSOfanboy,

Despite your claims to the contrary, your comment is patronizing and disrespectful. He's almost 70. He wants a nice trumpet. Why belittle that?

In another thread you berated someone for asking for information regarding two different horns. You implied that his question was not "intelligent " or "stimulating" enough.

In yet another thread you scolded people who listed the horns they had.

What's wrong with you? This is not Reddit. Don't be a troll.


Hi,

Its a shame that you choose to interpret my comments in such a manner, especially since I went to such lengths to express my sincerity.

I stand by my comments- the OP is, of course, free to spend his money how he wants, but should not be under any illusion that buying a fancy trumpet is going to help bypass the difficulties of playing the instrument.

For what it is worth; I would happily tell exactly the same thing to any of my students (who, with no disrespect intended, probably have far greater ability than the OP) so I am certainly not 'trolling'.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

All the best
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J. Landress Brass
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a brand new Edwards X-17 in stock that we got in a few weeks ago. It is a really, really nice instrument. It is extremely easy to play and responds quickly. The sound is quite flexible and has beautiful upper register and can really light up if pushed. The valves are incredibly fast and smooth. If you would like to arrange a trial please email me at josh@jlandressbrass.com
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Smokin Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want an x-17, go for it, and enjoy!!!!!!
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Irving
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSO has a good point. It isn't only valid for amateurs and comeback players. It is valid for everybody who is trying to develop a skill that takes many years to develop. Whether it be golf clubs, bicycles or whatever, it isn't the equipment that dictates whether or not you will be successful. Even professional players know that the instrument that they choose won't give them any skills that they don't have. You can make a good case that the professional only needs an instrument that will let them do their job. In fact, most pros use standard pro instruments, and not the boutique mega priced instruments available today. whatever the OP chooses I hope that he enjoys his horn.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The points made by LSO and Irving both read as if there is no benefit to using pro equipment. Sure golf clubs won’t make me Arnold Palmer, nor will a monette trumpet make me Winton Marsalis, but they might allow me to be a better player.

Back in the days when rollerblading was trending I bladed at lunch with colleague who was a former Olympic bicycle racer. I struggled to keep up with him until one day I upgraded my wheels and bearings. Lo and behold I was suddenly able to keep up.

Ymmv
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am completely here with LSOfanboy. It's all about information and the information is right. Some reactions here are familiar to me and for that reason I invented and added my signature.
The comparison with rollerblades is wrong, that's a technical thing, any person who has one week their driving license will be able to drive faster in an expensive V8 car than in a cheap two-cylinder, with trumpets these things are a little bit more complicated.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
I am completely here with LSOfanboy. It's all about information and the information is right. Some reactions here are familiar to me and for that reason I invented and added my signature.
The comparison with rollerblades is wrong, that's a technical thing, any person who has one week their driving license will be able to drive faster in an expensive V8 car than in a cheap two-cylinder, with trumpets these things are a little bit more complicated.

Playing the trumpet also includes many technical things. Intonation, valve action, slotting, efficiency of the sound production.

We all adjust to our horn’s quirks as we progress. Sometimes those quirks hold us back. Poor valve action can inhibit learning to coordinate tongue attacks on quick passages. Poor horn intonation can cause one to crack attacks or play off pitch. I had a gap issue that caused the D above high C to be almost impossible to hit. Fixing that gap allowed me to hit that note reliably again, just like getting new wheels and bearings on my rollerblades allowed me to skate with less effort.

Wouldn’t having a good instrument that allowed one to focus on things other than the instrument’s shortcomings be beneficial?

The “truth” is that one doesn’t *need* a top end expensive horn, but one will probably do at least as well on it if not better.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty, when you talk about a top end horn, I immediately think of brands such as Monette, Harrelson, and Taylor. These horns have a different sound than a mainstream trumpet such as Bach or Yamaha. Most pros don't use them, since they sound that they are made to produce doesn't fit in with what a " normal" trumpet is supposed to sound like. I wouldn't imagine that these horns are any easier to play than a Bach or a Schilke, so no, I wouldn't recommend one of these specialty instruments for anybody, unless they were intending to be a soloist. As far as standard pro brands go, if they are good enough for the best pros in the business, then they should work for anybody else. Bach, Schilke, Yamaha, Getzen or whatever. It's just a question of deciding between them. Honestly, I know nothing about the Edwards trumpet, so I can't comment on that brand. I will say that they are probably hard to find, so comparing one to a standard pro brand might be difficult.

Another thing. Pro horns aren't neccesarily easier to play then student models, so that might be taken into consideration as well.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving,

So many generalizations. Not all Monettes, nor all Taylors, nor all Harrelsons have a different sound. Certainly some, perhaps even most, do, but I personally have played in a section with a Monette C that had a perfectly normal, to me, sound.

My definition of top end horn includes Bach, Schilke, Yamaha, Getzen and horns from boutique shops. The horns played by pros.

Almost any of these horns will be light years easier to play than a worn out beater.

I think a lot of the discussion involves not understanding what the poster has in their mind.

Perhaps we can all agree that someone past a beginner would benefit from not playing a worn out beater.

Perhaps we can all agree that playing a horn with a different sound production is best left to the professional or if there is a call for the sound in the music the owner plays.

I agree that in most cases a different horn will not instantly make a person have better tone, etc., *unless* the horn the person is currently using is substandard.

So, IMHO, if the instrument is substandard upgrading is good idea. Upgrading could mean purchasing a horn that is slightly better, but, IMHO, skipping all of the intermediate steps and purchasing a pro level horn that will serve for years as one's skills develop and mature is a wise decision.
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Irving,

(...)
(1)Almost any of these horns will be light years easier to play than a worn out beater.

(2)I think a lot of the discussion involves not understanding what the poster has in their mind.

(3)Perhaps we can all agree that someone past a beginner would benefit from not playing a worn out beater.

(...)

(4)I agree that in most cases a different horn will not instantly make a person have better tone, etc., *unless* the horn the person is currently using is substandard.

(5)So, IMHO, if the instrument is substandard upgrading is good idea. Upgrading could mean purchasing a horn that is slightly better, but, IMHO, skipping all of the intermediate steps and purchasing a pro level horn that will serve for years as one's skills develop and mature is a wise decision.


You seem to be quite sure about what's in the OP's mind. Let's see the facts. You use the example of the worn out beater a few times as well as the term substandard. Why? The OP has a 70ties Silver Flair in great shape!, so there goes your worn out beater as well as the substandard.
That makes all your statements but number 4 completely irrelevant.
Statement number 4 is ok and that's in short what LSOfanboy had to say about this subject.
I hope you can understand why I consider your statement number 2 not only as irrelevant but also as obscure (is that the right word in English?).
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the OP has a 70's Silver Flair in great shape then changing to something else is not likely to get him anything significant in terms of an immediate improvement in his results. The valve action, intonation and overall playability of his Silver Flair is most likely more than adequate for his level of skill and is not realistically "holding him back." Full disclosure: I own a 70's Silver Flair in great shape and it is more than adequate for me to employ 100% of my skills (I've been playing trumpet for 58 consecutive years, 44 of them professionally, and never needed a "come back").

The foregoing being said, there are good reasons for a player to acquire a horn he considers the best available for the amount he can afford. There is a lot to be said for "pride of ownership" and how that pride can motivate the player to practice and improve and to, in a manner of speaking, become a player worthy of the professional level of the horn.

Owning a professional level horn can be evidence of a player's commitment to achieve a professional level of proficiency. It can be seen by the player as sort of a "membership card" to a society of trumpet players dedicated to achieving excellence.

Owning a professional level horn can also be a commitment to removing extrinsic excuses for a failure to play at a desired level, a commitment to the idea that, from now on, the player's shortcomings in terms of results are due to issues intrinsic to the player himself.

The foregoing is, by no means, intended to be a complete or otherwise comprehensive list of the subjective benefits of owning a professional level trumpet. The trumpet and its motivations and inspirations can be very personal in nature and anything that creates positive results and/or positive feelings should be encouraged.

My feelings about the OP's post are these: Life is short. Order the expensive wine and eat dessert first. Own things that give you pride, satisfaction and encouragement and don't let anyone rain on your parade.

More power to you my man!!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
Irving,

(...)
(1)Almost any of these horns will be light years easier to play than a worn out beater.

(2)I think a lot of the discussion involves not understanding what the poster has in their mind.

(3)Perhaps we can all agree that someone past a beginner would benefit from not playing a worn out beater.

(...)

(4)I agree that in most cases a different horn will not instantly make a person have better tone, etc., *unless* the horn the person is currently using is substandard.

(5)So, IMHO, if the instrument is substandard upgrading is good idea. Upgrading could mean purchasing a horn that is slightly better, but, IMHO, skipping all of the intermediate steps and purchasing a pro level horn that will serve for years as one's skills develop and mature is a wise decision.


(1)You seem to be quite sure about what's in the OP's mind.
(2)Let's see the facts.
(3)You use the example of the worn out beater a few times as well as the term substandard. Why? The OP has a 70ties Silver Flair in great shape!, so there goes your beater as well as the substandard.
(4)That makes all your statements but number 4 completely irrelevant.
(5)Statement number 4 is ok and that's in short what LSOfanboy had to say.
(6)I hope you can understand why I consider your statement number 2 as not only as irrelevant but also as obscure (is that the right word in English?).


(D1)I have never said I knew what was in the OP's mind. In fact I said the opposite. See my point 2.

(D2) Hmm. You seem to be obsessed with your facts when they are not facts.

(D3)I missed that he stated that. However I was using hyperbole to make a point. You miss that the OP states that trumpets like the Yamaha Bobby Shew and Bach Commercial seem to facilitate my playing. So the OP has determined that some horns make his life easier.

(D4)None of my statements are irrelevant.

(D5)I specifically am separating the technical improvements, like being able to reliably time tonguing to valve movement, from the seeming intangibles to mere mortals like tone production that LSO used as an example. If the only possible improvement is to tone production, then I completely agree with LSO. But that is simply not the case.

(D6)Yes I can understand why you find my statement number 2 as irrelevant. That is because the "facts" as you define them in your mind are not "facts" as I see them. Which is my point 2 exactly.

BTW, you may find my point 2 to be irrelevant because you don't understand that by "poster" I mean the person who wrote a post, not only the OP. In this discussion of my point 2 the "poster" was me. Also, you missed that I was using hyperbole since you don't understand what was in my mind when I wrote the post.

For me, it is well known fact that things written on the internet are often misunderstood and misinterpreted due to not being able to see ones expressions or hear the tonal inflections.

Joke: perhaps if I upgrade my computer to the best one money can buy I will be able to express myself more clearly.
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jetjaguar
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Winnipeg. This is what happens on here.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edwards has continued to tweak the X-17 since they introduced it a few years ago. Josh Landress mentioned in his response that he has a new new X-17 in stock. If so, it should have the bell treatment Edwards introduced this year, which I thought helped to make a terrific horn even better.
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