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Trouble above the staff.



 
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Marco74
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Joined: 06 Nov 2018
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Trouble above the staff. Reply with quote

Hello everybody, thanks for having me. I have joined this forum because I need some help about learning to play the trumpet.
I am having serious problems when I play on the high register,(mind you,high register for me means just above the staff).
The problem is not that I want to expand the high range(not for now anyway), I can reach the C above the staff and that`s enough for me.
My problem is that when I play notes from G to C above the staff I dont have any accuracy;my chance to hit the right note is more or less 50%.
Feels like the lips opening and air flow for all the notes between G and C is pretty much the same.
Now, I was hoping that you guys can tell me what kind of exercises I should do to improve regarding this problem,or any other kind of advice,like trying
different mouthpieces or something else.
Or maybe I`m just hopeless with the trumpet,like I tend to think lately.
Thank you very much for your help.

Marco.
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1338

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble above the staff. Reply with quote

Marco74 wrote:
My problem is that when I play notes from G to C above the staff I dont have any accuracy;my chance to hit the right note is more or less 50%.

Feels like the lips opening and air flow for all the notes between G and C is pretty much the same.

I don't know how solidly you have the notes top of staff F to high C but being able to play them is a start, you also need to develop a solid feel for playing them. Yes, being accurate is a challenge.

You're walking a physics tightrope - various factors have to come together to play any note, things get progressively trickier the higher you go. You're shooting for a smaller and smaller target due to the overtone series or partials of the instrument along with the requirements of what you have to do physically to play higher and higher.

You need to practice playing the higher notes. Play scales, arpeggios, intervals, flexibility exercises, play Clarke's and other studies up in that range, play songs that take you to those higher notes. Practice hitting specific notes cleanly and accurately. Be able to articulate them - single, double, triple tongued.

It's all a matter of conditioning your self to have facility in the whole range of the instrument.

Take lessons and practice a lot.
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Marco74
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Joined: 06 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robert,Thanks a lot for your help.
Really appreciate you advice, I will change or add to my daily practice routine.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 3168
Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound to me like your teaching yourself, so let me add this word of caution: it doesn't matter how hip exercises and books are if, fundamentally, you're playing basically wrong.

Otherwise, you just perfect your bad habits and undoing something bad on trumpet is a lot more effort and time consuming than doing it right in the first place.

You need someone who knows what he's doing to be an objective observer of how you're playing. It could be a good teacher or "just" a good player on an as-needed basis.

In any case, if you're self taught, I think you need a qualified second party.
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Marco74
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Joined: 06 Nov 2018
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
You sound to me like your teaching yourself, so let me add this word of caution: it doesn't matter how hip exercises and books are if, fundamentally, you're playing basically wrong.

You need someone who knows what he's doing to be an objective observer of how you're playing. It could be a good teacher or "just" a good player on an as-needed basis.

In any case, if you're self taught, I think you need a qualified second party.


Hi kehaulani,
yes I`m afraid you are right,I need somebody competent to see what Im doing wrong(if any) and to help me fix it.
I did have a few lesson a few months ago but we were focusing on other things.
I cannot really afford to have many lessons, but I guess I will have to have some more, and focus on this problem.
For the moment I am doing what Robert P suggested in the previous reply.
Thank you.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco, it's not always easy but there are ways to get some extra cash. Think out of the box.

For example, I was fairly poor but worked out an arrangement with a superb teacher, whereby I would trade handyman type work around his house (painting, yard work, etc.) in exchange for lessons. Good luck.
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Marco74
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Joined: 06 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Marco, it's not always easy but there are ways to get some extra cash. Think out of the box.

For example, I was fairly poor but worked out an arrangement with a superb teacher, whereby I would trade handyman type work around his house (painting, yard work, etc.) in exchange for lessons. Good luck.


Thank you
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't already, then you need to find graduated exercises that allow you to reliably reach the top of your useful range. You should repeat that often and with a variety of articulations and dynamics. You should endeavor to expand that range a half step at a time and not proceed further until that becomes comfortably reliable.

FWIW I start my daily playing with Stamp arpeggios downward (If you're not familiar with the book by James Stamp, I highly recommend you do so). After a brief break, I do ascending Stamp scales upward. I repeat that up a step focusing hard on...
- modest volume with good breath support, but not overblowing
- light grip on the horn that allows the horn angle to float
- minor adjustments to the way the lips interact

Later in my daily routine, I'll do similar range expansion using arpeggios and flexibility studies like Irons or Bai Lin. Doing Clarke Technical Studies up to the top of your range is another way to solidify your accuracy.

I find that this helps to make me very secure with my accuracy near the top of my range.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Practice makes perfect". I repeat. If you are playing wrong, great exercises will only perfect bad habits which you'll regret. Said from first-hand experience. Get a teacher/good evaluator.
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis." Chet Baker

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Martin Committee (1956)
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Marco74
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Joined: 06 Nov 2018
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
If you don't already, then you need to find graduated exercises that allow you to reliably reach the top of your useful range. You should repeat that often and with a variety of articulations and dynamics. You should endeavor to expand that range a half step at a time and not proceed further until that becomes comfortably reliable.

FWIW I start my daily playing with Stamp arpeggios downward (If you're not familiar with the book by James Stamp, I highly recommend you do so). After a brief break, I do ascending Stamp scales upward. I repeat that up a step focusing hard on...
- modest volume with good breath support, but not overblowing
- light grip on the horn that allows the horn angle to float
- minor adjustments to the way the lips interact

Later in my daily routine, I'll do similar range expansion using arpeggios and flexibility studies like Irons or Bai Lin. Doing Clarke Technical Studies up to the top of your range is another way to solidify your accuracy.

I find that this helps to make me very secure with my accuracy near the top of my range.


Thank you very much cheiden, what you said is very interesting and make sense. I`ll have a look for James Stamp.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
"Practice makes perfect". I repeat. If you are playing wrong, great exercises will only perfect bad habits which you'll regret. Said from first-hand experience. Get a teacher/good evaluator.


True, “practice makes permanent.”

Brad
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dershem
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
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Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
"Practice makes perfect". I repeat. If you are playing wrong, great exercises will only perfect bad habits which you'll regret. Said from first-hand experience. Get a teacher/good evaluator.


Or, in the words of the philosopher "Malpractice makes malperfect".
Get a teacher. It's almost always possible.
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ryanmuckenfuss
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Joined: 26 Oct 2018
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Location: Fort Mill, SC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble above the staff. Reply with quote

Marco74 wrote:
Hello everybody, thanks for having me. I have joined this forum because I need some help about learning to play the trumpet.
I am having serious problems when I play on the high register,(mind you,high register for me means just above the staff).
The problem is not that I want to expand the high range(not for now anyway), I can reach the C above the staff and that`s enough for me.
My problem is that when I play notes from G to C above the staff I dont have any accuracy;my chance to hit the right note is more or less 50%.
Feels like the lips opening and air flow for all the notes between G and C is pretty much the same.
Now, I was hoping that you guys can tell me what kind of exercises I should do to improve regarding this problem,or any other kind of advice,like trying
different mouthpieces or something else.
Or maybe I`m just hopeless with the trumpet,like I tend to think lately.
Thank you very much for your help.

Marco.

Oh my did I have this issue! I found that long tones are your best friend, while they are mostly a tone exercise they will help you learn what it feels like to hit that note. Simply start on lets say a G above the staff, hold it for 8 counts at a piano dynamic, then move up chromatically to a high C. Make sure to hold every note at a solid piano this will strengthen your lips. Do this exercise once slurred never taking the horn away form your face, then, next rep, after every long tone take the horn away from your face and reset your lips then play the next note. This will help you retain what it feels like to come in strong on those notes. Remember, any lead player will tell you, when in doubt more air!

Happy Range Building,
Ryan Muckenfuss
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