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Numrek
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: High Range in Jazz |
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| I recently go a lead part in my high school jazz band. Some of the notes are beyond my range and I was wondering how to play them easier. |
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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High range is developed over time by perfecting the fundamentals consistent with high range. It can take a long time (many years of dedicated study and practice). There is usually no quick fix.
This presents you with a dilemma: Do you try to play what's written only to miss/play it poorly, or do you take it down an octave where it's comfortable for you to play it and you can play it accurately and with a good sound? I suppose a third choice would be to hand the part over to someone who can play it as written but I'm assuming that's really not an option for you.
My vote is ALWAYS to make the most beautiful music you can make. There is nothing more inherently "beautiful" about a double G compared to a G. Both can be beautiful if played beautifully. But if the double G is missed when the G would be played beautifully, there's no contest: The G is the preferred note.
If you're in high school and don't have range to match the lead parts then you're a work in progress in terms of range (almost all high school players fit this description).
Playing music beautifully is a lot more important and valuable than trying, but failing, to carry out the exact "as written" original intent of the composer/arranger. You don't have to be embarrassed or consider yourself a failure if you can't play notes above a certain level in the chart. You should feel embarrassed and consider yourself a failure if you butcher notes you don't have the range to cover instead of making an adjustment and bringing them down to a range level you can cover with accuracy and beauty.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
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Voltrane
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Great advice ! |
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dobs
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Location: Hannover, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: |
If you're in high school and don't have range to match the lead parts then you're a work in progress in terms of range (almost all high school players fit this description).
Playing music beautifully is a lot more important and valuable than trying, but failing, to carry out the exact "as written" original intent of the composer/arranger. You don't have to be embarrassed or consider yourself a failure if you can't play notes above a certain level in the chart. You should feel embarrassed and consider yourself a failure if you butcher notes you don't have the range to cover instead of making an adjustment and bringing them down to a range level you can cover with accuracy and beauty.
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I agree in principle, however you do not develop high chops in the practice lab at home. You need real world experience playing actual music and you need to constantly try to exceed your Limits in order to move them. As such, in a non-professional setting, such as high school bands, music school bands and the like, I think it is perfectly acceptable to try out new things and strive for notes that are not there yet. Eventually they will. They won't if you never try and always play safe. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: |
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How to play high easier? A suitable daily routine, preferably with the guidance of a qualified teacher. Without one or both of those, progress is far from certain.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Show the part to the band director and ask him how he wants you to compensate. That's his job.
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Speed
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Kehaulani is right. There is no shame whatsoever in bringing that issue to the attention of the director. He needs to be sure he is putting tunes in front of the band that is within the band's ability to play.
A couple of years ago, I had a chart where one passage was at the top of my range, and it had several measures of straight sixteenths. Just because I could HIT that note didn't mean that I could double tongue around it for four measures of straight sixteenths. If the chart had required me just to hit the note and hold it, all would have been well, but I simply could not cleanly double tongue that passage in that range.
I talked to the director about it and he decided it would be better to slur a note here and there - which made it work for me - rather than take it down an octave. Turned out that virtually the entire trumpet section was having the same problem. |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Rewriting ackward or downright unplayable passages is bread and butter for a decent musicalo director.
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| dobs wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: |
If you're in high school and don't have range to match the lead parts then you're a work in progress in terms of range (almost all high school players fit this description).
Playing music beautifully is a lot more important and valuable than trying, but failing, to carry out the exact "as written" original intent of the composer/arranger. You don't have to be embarrassed or consider yourself a failure if you can't play notes above a certain level in the chart. You should feel embarrassed and consider yourself a failure if you butcher notes you don't have the range to cover instead of making an adjustment and bringing them down to a range level you can cover with accuracy and beauty.
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I agree in principle, however you do not develop high chops in the practice lab at home. You need real world experience playing actual music and you need to constantly try to exceed your Limits in order to move them. As such, in a non-professional setting, such as high school bands, music school bands and the like, I think it is perfectly acceptable to try out new things and strive for notes that are not there yet. Eventually they will. They won't if you never try and always play safe. |
Just absolutely not. Totally wrong and inappropriate. You develop high chops by diligent study and practice on your own time, not by inflicting poor discretion on your fellow players and disrespecting the people who are depending on you to play your part as proficiently and accurately as you can. One player can make an entire ensemble a disaster.
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dobs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Of Course you Need careful and diligent practice at home, but you also need to be exposed to challengeing actual playing situations with a band. One should not attempt Music that is completely out of one's capability, but I think it is important to attempt Music that might still just be a little bit too difficult and try to push the boundaries to eventually move them and grow. Not necessarily in a concert, but certainly in band practice. |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I believe the OP is referring to a part on which he is leading the entire band. Is that the place to experiment?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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dobs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | I believe the OP is referring to a part on which he is leading the entire band. Is that the place to experiment? |
No, it is not. Even more so, if he clearly is not able to play it and does not even come Close. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me that every player, particular during their development will encounter parts beyond their ability. Young players will almost always throw themselves at the part and hope they "hit it" this time. I think it's a sign of maturity to learn how to pick your battles. When it's reasonable to "go for it" and when to put the ego aside and make an adjustment. Hand-off the part to another player, drop the octave, find another note in the chord, tacet on unisons, drop a few bars, just stop playing...
I agree that range needs to be expanded in the practice room. Done right most of those gains will show up in rehearsal/performance, but a little trial and error may be required to learn your limits.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
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Brad361
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dobs wrote: | | Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Of Course you Need careful and diligent practice at home, but you also need to be exposed to challengeing actual playing situations with a band. One should not attempt Music that is completely out of one's capability, but I think it is important to attempt Music that might still just be a little bit too difficult and try to push the boundaries to eventually move them and grow. Not necessarily in a concert, but certainly in band practice. |
Which is not at all what you said previously. Hey, it’s no big deal, but I guess you have noticed that you can’t delete a previous post when it’s used in a quote by someone else.
Brad
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Last edited by Brad361 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BGinNJ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I can't disagree with the advice to work on fundamentals and develop high range in the practice room, but the challenge of practical application is needed.
It didn't really start to come together for me until I found a rehearsal big band. When the trumpet section thinned out for a while, I had to start playing first or second parts instead of comfortable 3rd parts.
I'm definitely a work in progress, but I'm learning how to actually use the range I have, playing "hits" above the staff, etc., and trying to build stamina for when it's "Trumpets, let's try it again at measure 72" . |
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dobs
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | dobs wrote: | | Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Of Course you Need careful and diligent practice at home, but you also need to be exposed to challengeing actual playing situations with a band. One should not attempt Music that is completely out of one's capability, but I think it is important to attempt Music that might still just be a little bit too difficult and try to push the boundaries to eventually move them and grow. Not necessarily in a concert, but certainly in band practice. |
Which is not at all what you said previously. Hey, it’s no big deal, but I guess you have noticed that you can’t delete a previous post when it’s used in a quote by someone else.
Brad |
I was not going to delete my post. I still stand by my opinion that you do not develop high chops in the practice room, but I should have added the word "alone". Practiciing at home without going for it in actual playing situations will not make you a lead player. But yes, don't destroy a piece by atempting something that is cleary out of your range, do take calculated risks though. Admittedly I did not pay proper attention to the OP's original post. In a situation where you are asked to play something which you clearly can't, it's time to find alternative solutions. |
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Nikoloas17
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'll contribute my advice as someone who found themselves in that situation partway through high school, less than 10 years ago. If the higher notes on that piece are just at the very edge of your range, I would say try to hit them a few times when you're practicing the piece on your own, and if they're just not working, then speak with your director about either passing the part, or if no one else has the range, making adjustments to the piece to make it more accessible while maintaining musicality. If they're way outside your range, go straight with talking to your director. As others have said, musicality is more important. I was a dumb kid who kept trying to hit the high notes, and while I eventually succeeded more often than not, looking back, I think I would've sounded much better and contributed more musically to the group had I accepted my current limitations and been more concerned with how I sounded, rather than how high I could reach. Hindsight is 20/20, eh?
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Lionel
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: High Range in Jazz |
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| Numrek wrote: | | I recently go a lead part in my high school jazz band. Some of the notes are beyond my range and I was wondering how to play them easier. |
Take this as a learning experience. For starters, make a photo copy of all the charts with notes above your present high rangecapabilities. Then circle those difficult notes (in pencil!) Then either play an octave lower or better still find the next lower note in the chord and use that tone instead of the written one.
Let't say that you struggle with a High C. It's a note that you often miss or can't play loud enough. This is a typical condition found in high school players. So? Change that High C to an A natural a minor third lower. See if the tone fits. If not? Try another note. Like A flat or G top if the staff. Youtube has plenty of examples of most high school big band charts. Here you could play along with the chart. Changing the higher tones which you have trouble with to a note well within your existing range.
As for increasing your existing range? Equipment helps. There's a reason why great lead players like Lynn Nicholson use shallow mouthpieces for most of their work. Lynn has four and a half octaves of real notes on his working range. His choice of mouthpieces is quite shallow but with a very open throat/back-bore. So here ought be your conclusion on mouthpiece choice for playing lead,
If a man like Lynn blows a shallow mouthpiece and he has three times your range, then why should you use a mouthpiece any deeper or bigger than his?
Suggestion,
Watch the late Maynard Ferguson's youtube videos on Breathing. And? Contact Lynn Nicholson regarding his valuable "X Piece" mouthpiece. Good luck!
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cheiden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: High Range in Jazz |
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| Lionel wrote: | | If a man like Lynn blows a shallow mouthpiece and he has three times your range, then why should you use a mouthpiece any deeper or bigger than his? |
The conventional wisdom here is that the pros have gone through a tremendous amount of development in order to play those tiny pieces and sound good on them. Young players that prematurely turn to the 6A4a or Shew Lead more often than not sound lousy, and it can derail their development. This is coming from a guy who as a high school freshman when out and bought a JetTone MF2, the mouthpiece with absolutely no cup.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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The effect of equipment on the type of sound you get can be significant. However, the effect of equipment (such as shallow mouthpieces) on increasing your high range is insignificant. Lynn Nicholson can play a strong double C (and higher) on a flugelhorn using a deep flugelhorn mouthpiece. It's not the mouthpiece, it's the player.
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