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CRoberts8
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: Bach white straight mutes |
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After 2 years of searching and waiting I FINALLY found one of the white Bach straight mutes. It has all of the positives of the black mutes but it is made of lighter plastic that seems to produce a good bit more sound, and the overall sound of the mute is overall "better". I prefer it in every way to the newer Bach mutes.
When did Bach change mute types? Does anybody else have one of these? How "old" are they anyway? I have read references to them and have only ever seen one other one in person thus my curiosity.
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Charles Russell Roberts
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gringoloco
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Is it because it's white or because it's older? I know that the older mutes were made of softer plastic and that the newer ones are made of more brittle material.
How old is the mute you finally found? There is at least one thread about this here. Please do let us know.
Rob
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CRoberts8
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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The white ones were made of a lighter plastic than the black ones. Even the old black ones (30-40 years old) are made of the same heavier plastic.
I think the white ones were the "mercedes" model straight mute. There is no sticker on mine and I have no idea how old it is. The only other one I have seen in person was in the studio of a well known NYC based player. I once owned a Bach plastic cup that was white and had the "Mercedes" name on the sticker.
The reference where I read about the mutes is at the thread I am linking below and quoting from. Two big names in the orchestral world talking about these mutes -- I guess it has only been about 6 months or so that I have been really hunting for one of these.
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=101394&sid=d2550dcc3dee722cc645445ca001d725
| JohnHagstrom wrote: | | Actually, the old Bach straight mutes made of softer rubber (and not the newer hard plastic) are very hard to find, but they work really well. And, I bet someone while the program was going on that within a half hour someone on Trumpetherald would write about that.... so thanks!
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| MrClean wrote: | | John, I remember those Bach mutes. Phil Collins had a white one. I'd love to find one because they are great - much better than the brittle plastic ones they currently make.
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Charles Russell Roberts
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CRoberts8
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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A cursory search of google results for "Bach white straight mute" for trumpetherald.com and trumpetmaster.com does not show any other results.
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Charles Russell Roberts
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AJCarter
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to dig up an old thread, but after seeing a post on FB and then seeing one at a local player's house here in town it makes me wonder and have to ask:
Why is no one trying to reproduce this mute? Pretty sure we have the capabilities and can analyze the composition.. it's obvious we're desperate enough to pay near exorbitant amounts of money for a plastic mute if it was this. But no one seems to be trying to recreate it?
BTW, I am going to keep working on that gentleman and see if I can get it! He says there's a line though 
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benlewis
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I have one of these that Tony Scodwell has converted to his "Scod-Well" mute. While retaining its sound characteristics, the addition of a bespoke stopper ensures proper hydration while on stage.  |
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trpthrld
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benlewis
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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You are correct, Tim. The white mute was made from the same material as baby bottles. However, I normally use mine for beverages of a slightly more adult nature. I believe I got Tony's second-to-last one and he was going to auction the last one to raise money for a charitable cause. I can't remember the exact details; probably due to excessive mute use...  |
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dr_trumpet
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| AJCarter wrote: | Sorry to dig up an old thread, but after seeing a post on FB and then seeing one at a local player's house here in town it makes me wonder and have to ask:
Why is no one trying to reproduce this mute? Pretty sure we have the capabilities and can analyze the composition.. it's obvious we're desperate enough to pay near exorbitant amounts of money for a plastic mute if it was this. But no one seems to be trying to recreate it?
BTW, I am going to keep working on that gentleman and see if I can get it! He says there's a line though |
I know where there are two of the white straights, one in original packaging, and at least one of the cup mutes. They were the "Mercedes" mutes, according to the sticker on them, and I have always preferred them to the black ones. Others may disagree.
AL
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Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
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AJCarter
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| dr_trumpet wrote: | | AJCarter wrote: | Sorry to dig up an old thread, but after seeing a post on FB and then seeing one at a local player's house here in town it makes me wonder and have to ask:
Why is no one trying to reproduce this mute? Pretty sure we have the capabilities and can analyze the composition.. it's obvious we're desperate enough to pay near exorbitant amounts of money for a plastic mute if it was this. But no one seems to be trying to recreate it?
BTW, I am going to keep working on that gentleman and see if I can get it! He says there's a line though |
I know where there are two of the white straights, one in original packaging, and at least one of the cup mutes. They were the "Mercedes" mutes, according to the sticker on them, and I have always preferred them to the black ones. Others may disagree.
AL |
If everyone seems to prefer them, how come no one is trying to reproduce them is what I'm saying. Al I might be confused.. you said you know where two of them are?
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dr_trumpet
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| AJCarter wrote: | | dr_trumpet wrote: | | AJCarter wrote: | Sorry to dig up an old thread, but after seeing a post on FB and then seeing one at a local player's house here in town it makes me wonder and have to ask:
Why is no one trying to reproduce this mute? Pretty sure we have the capabilities and can analyze the composition.. it's obvious we're desperate enough to pay near exorbitant amounts of money for a plastic mute if it was this. But no one seems to be trying to recreate it?
BTW, I am going to keep working on that gentleman and see if I can get it! He says there's a line though |
I know where there are two of the white straights, one in original packaging, and at least one of the cup mutes. They were the "Mercedes" mutes, according to the sticker on them, and I have always preferred them to the black ones. Others may disagree.
AL |
If everyone seems to prefer them, how come no one is trying to reproduce them is what I'm saying. Al I might be confused.. you said you know where two of them are? |
I am looking at them right here on my desk. One in its plastic wrap with a $14 price tag on it, the other unwrapped and the one that I use when I want that sound. I found one of my two cup mutes, the one that is still in wrapper. I want to find my second one, because it is the one I prefer.
AL
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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dr_trumpet
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Joined: 22 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Bach white straight mutes |
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| CRoberts8 wrote: |
When did Bach change mute types? Does anybody else have one of these? How "old" are they anyway? I have read references to them and have only ever seen one other one in person thus my curiosity. |
They were available 'concurrently' with the black ones, albeit the black ones came out first. I know they were available in the early-mid 1980s. I bought 42 of them for a marching band show in 1992, as they were considerably cheaper than the black plastic ones at the time, and considered "inferior" to the black ones. I would imagine there are 40 of them out there in my local area, as the kids were given them at the end of the marching season. That way, they all had a decent straight mute. Many students at that school could not afford mutes, and could barely get an instrument.
In comparison to the black ones, the plastic is softer and the sounds less nasal, at least for me. It is amazing they are coming back into vogue, as I bought two of the cup mutes just a few years ago on eBay brand new for less than the cost of one new black one. Old inventory being sold to clear out the room for something else, if I recall correctly. Can only find one cup right now, but hope to find the other as it would make my set complete and give me a spare. Have already had inquiries about the second straight I have. Amazing the interest in these.
AL
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Tony Scodwell
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: Bach white plastic mute |
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Dale Olsen was the man who made both the black (ABS plastic) and the white (polyethylene plastic) and the reason he ceased production on the white one was it was harder to control the quality. I tried very hard to get in touch with companies who specialize in plastic moulding in order to keep my mute-flask in production but with set-up fees costing thousands of dollars I gave up looking. Dale sold the mutes to Conn-Selmer and indeed they were the Bach Mercedes mutes in their catalog intended for student use. The black one still is being produced and I intend to quiz Ted Wagoner of Bach about a new version of the white poly mute at ITG this year. Ben was correct in stating that he got the second to last one I made and the one that was to be silent auctioned off at last years ITG was instead sold to Ted. Over the years he had seen my converted mute and never had one so the very last one now resides in his office. I would like to find a source to make more out of rectilinear polyethylene (which is available in solid white) and resume production as the "mute" still gets asked for.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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trumpet_cop
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| So, anyone know of a good substitute for the Mercedes straight since the Black ones don't seem to match with these as well? Has anyone talked to the folks at Bach to let them know they could potentially be sitting on some good sales with these? |
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tubbs831
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| trumpet_cop wrote: | | So, anyone know of a good substitute for the Mercedes straight since the Black ones don't seem to match with these as well? Has anyone talked to the folks at Bach to let them know they could potentially be sitting on some good sales with these? |
This! It definitely seems there is a demand for the older black and white style mutes. Can't imagine it would cost a ton to run production on some. Hopefully one day.... |
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dr_trumpet
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| tubbs831 wrote: | | trumpet_cop wrote: | | So, anyone know of a good substitute for the Mercedes straight since the Black ones don't seem to match with these as well? Has anyone talked to the folks at Bach to let them know they could potentially be sitting on some good sales with these? |
This! It definitely seems there is a demand for the older black and white style mutes. Can't imagine it would cost a ton to run production on some. Hopefully one day.... |
From what I hear, you would be terribly surprised at the cost of mold creation and running a set of mutes. Only through a significant volume is there any money to be made, much as in any product of this kind. I am not sure there are enough trumpeters with interests in the old white mutes to make them at a cost that seems reasonable to most.
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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