| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Improvising Dixie Counter Lines |
 |
|
In trad jazz playing, what are the best choices to make when improvising countermelodies and patterns that support the lead player.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They go up, you go down. Also echo the lead line during their pause. Even works when they are total improv. Sounds cool to work up complementary phrases to their inventions. Then you start building on each other.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bill Ortiz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 904
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Listen to the records-the answers are all there.
_________________
'56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks guys! Listening is certainly essential but it's also helpful to have some guidelines. It's like having a map when all the trees start to look the same.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9005
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bill Ortiz wrote: | | Listen to the records-the answers are all there. |
Yep.
I would also do an evolutionary trip just for fun, listening at first at counter-melodies in traditional American Marches. Next listen to Joe "King" Oliver's recordings of his Creole Jazz Band. Then go to the recordings of Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings. Then take your pick. I would go to Frankie Trumbauer and Bix Beiderbecke.
When you want to "modernize", try The Dukes of Disneyland, Eddie Condon, Jack Teagarden - your pick. You could also listen to Tuba Skinny.
General "rule". When the other voice is active, be passive. When it's passive, be active.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Great advice. As Mingus said “The notes are there. Find them.”
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I found this online. Echos Richard’s advice about staying passive when lead is active and vice versa.
https://medium.com/@NickEss/a-beginners-guide-to-counter-melodies-ebc5ae8b10cd
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9005
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kehaulani wrote: | | General "rule". When the other voice is active, be passive. When it's passive, be active. |
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5734
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
And, honestly, the way one approaches it is largely contingent on the instrument and the period you're trying to emulate. The common approach in the 1910s was for everyone to be pretty much playing all the time; this approach evolved after 1920 so that the soloist and the rhythm section often played while the other horns laid out or played backgrounds that were worked out. And the 1950s revival stuff burned that into play permanently...
In the group I work with, we do minimal counterpoint outside of the head in and out; sometimes I'll work with the other horn player(s) to play chords (softly) but that relies on people knowing changes and not stepping on one anothers' toes...
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9005
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good point. Usually we are used to only one trumpet in an early jazz combo. But in Joe Oliver's Band, there is a recording with two trumpets. Listening to how Louis handles it is instructive.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
