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Yamaha or Tarnishield for polishing my horn?


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Akis94
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Yamaha or Tarnishield for polishing my horn? Reply with quote

Hello !!!
I need suggestions
I use for years the polishing cream from yamaha, for my silver trumpet, and i'm really conteted, but i'm reading really good things about the Tarnishield from 3M..
Has anyone tried both?
Thanks in advance
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not tried Yamaha brand silver polish. I imagine they should have a fine product. I used to use Twinkle brand polishing cream. I always felt it did a great job and was easy to use. It even had a nice sort of wintergreen smell, too!

Now, I’ve been introduced to TarniSchield (50% water dilution) and I see no reason to use anything else. It even works on the raw brass and copper of my flugelhorn. It brightens the brass with very little effort and shines the copper without removing the colored patina. I can’t ask for more than that!
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarnishield works very well; maybe too well? It takes off the tarnish pretty easily, leaving the silver looking great - however, remember that every time you do this, you're removing some silver.

Recently, "Simichrome Polish" was recommended to me - I like it a lot. Cleans well, and seems to hove some lasting protectiveness to it. Made in Germany, should be available in Europe as well.

To extend the time between polishings-keeping the shine lasting longer, get yourself a soft "microfiber" cloth and use it after you play.
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never use something as abrasive as Simichrome on silver plating.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarnishield has been suggested by several manufacturers and techs so that is what I use. It is less (sometimes much less) abrasive than most silver polishes and includes protectants.

One or two others have been highly recommended but I don't remember the names (others are sure to chime in).

Wright's, Semichrome, and several others were deemed too abrasive by the folk with whom I spoke.

Search for the baking soda method and you'll find a way to reduce tarnish without removing silver. It is a chemical reaction and is not a cleaning method -- clean, then do the hot water+baking soda soak (horn on Al pan) to remove (convert, chemically reduce) tarnish.

Be sure to keep any cloth you use clean. I have plenty of tiny scratches on my horns because I failed to keep the cloth clean. The dust and grime it picks up stays with (in) it, lurking malevolently to scratch your horn the next time you use it.

FWIWFM - Don
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also use anti-tarnish strips in your case. I have found them to be effective at minimizing tarnish. They are strips of treated paper that attract sulfides more strongly than silver does, and they help keep them away from the silver plating on your horn.
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'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herman's Silver Restoration owner published a very comprehensive guide on just about any polish and cleaner you can imagine.

http://www.hermansilver.com/silver-polish-abrasion-ratings.htm

I ended up using Twinkle 1-2x a year. The baking soda trick is nifty science but it does not add any kind of protective layer. I actually like to see the beginnings of tarnish, makes the horn look smoky.
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That web page looks like an excellent detailed summary of information and issues for evaluating silver polishes. The only problem is the obvious blatant conflict of interest. Of course he rates his own product higher than every other product. The rest of the review seems tarnished by that.
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'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Croquethed wrote:
Herman's Silver Restoration owner published a very comprehensive guide on just about any polish and cleaner you can imagine.

http://www.hermansilver.com/silver-polish-abrasion-ratings.htm

I ended up using Twinkle 1-2x a year. The baking soda trick is nifty science but it does not add any kind of protective layer. I actually like to see the beginnings of tarnish, makes the horn look smoky.

Another page on this site recommends against using the baking soda method. I seem to remember a silversmith posting on this site recommending against that method also, but I am unable to find the post.

That said, I have used the baking soda method on my C trumpet after it sat in a case the cat marked and got severely tarnished.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only problems I have heard are using water too hot (do NOT use boiling water as some suggest -- OK for spoons, not for horns), takes a while, will not work well if horn not clean, and you must thoroughly flush the horn to remove all traces of the baking soda.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used Wright's Silver Cream for decades. I guess maybe I shouldn't have? Dunno - it always seemed to do a pretty good job and I don't recall ever wearing through the plating using it. I've worn through plating, but not by polishing.

These days I pretty much exclusively play lacquered horns. For me, it holds up better and it's loads easier to maintain. A bit of dish detergent in some lukewarm water and it's like new in less than 5 minutes - SO Much easier than polishing silver plating, and it looks cleaner for longer.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
The only problems I have heard are using water too hot (do NOT use boiling water as some suggest -- OK for spoons, not for horns), takes a while, will not work well if horn not clean, and you must thoroughly flush the horn to remove all traces of the baking soda.

I wish I could find the post. I believe it had to do with leaving tiny cavities due to the chemical reaction.

As I stated I have used this process and might again. But I think people should be made aware that an expert recommends against it so they can make an informed choice.

It is kind of like those polishing cloths they sold back in the seventies when I was in high school. They consisted of a yellow cloth and a red cloth. Those who didn’t know better would use the red cloth regularly and eventually find they had polished through the silver plating. But if they were forewarned they might not have used it, or used it less often.
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Akis94
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your answers
Has maybe tried the yamaha too?
I'm just a little afraid if the Tarnishield will remove the silver with time, because with the yamaha i hadn't any problem with that..
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akis94 wrote:
Thank you for your answers
Has maybe tried the yamaha too?
I'm just a little afraid if the Tarnishield will remove the silver with time, because with the yamaha i hadn't any problem with that..

I wouldn’t worry about tarnishield damaging your instrument. Many repair shops use and recommend it.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Don Herman rev2 wrote:
The only problems I have heard are using water too hot (do NOT use boiling water as some suggest -- OK for spoons, not for horns), takes a while, will not work well if horn not clean, and you must thoroughly flush the horn to remove all traces of the baking soda.

I wish I could find the post. I believe it had to do with leaving tiny cavities due to the chemical reaction.

As I stated I have used this process and might again. But I think people should be made aware that an expert recommends against it so they can make an informed choice.

It is kind of like those polishing cloths they sold back in the seventies when I was in high school. They consisted of a yellow cloth and a red cloth. Those who didn’t know better would use the red cloth regularly and eventually find they had polished through the silver plating. But if they were forewarned they might not have used it, or used it less often.


No worries, let me know if you find it. Since the reaction is to reduce the oxidation (chemically speaker, bearing in mind I am an EE and my pre-med chemistry classes, while numerous, were long ago) it effectively replaces the "tarnish" (oxide) with restored silver. It removes the oxide, leaving the silver on the horn. I can imagine if the oxide is severe then taking it away may allow the silver to flake off, but that is true (and probably more so) with a polishing agent and cloth. So I think it'd still be a better choice...

But, I usually just pull out the Tarnishield as it is easy and works well in a few minutes after cleaning the horn. Flip (Oakes) and Zig (Kanstul) said to use it when I asked what was best and that's good enough for me. At the time that is what both of them used for final polishing.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other side, I have Yamaha's and I believe it is too abrasive. It left marks inside the bell of my c trumpet. It may be I needed to shake it up/mix it, but it definitely has the potential to smear or mark your instrument. Tarnishield might be the better option.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TarniSheild is not aggressive.

Look. You have several people citing it's use, plus reference to a number of FACTORIES that regularly use it to prep their horns: Kanstul, Flip Oakes + ?

Then, you have one poster who writes his doubts.

Did that poster cite ANY experience with the product? No.

Here's how the product works in real life:

Dilute thick toothpaste-like polish 1/1 with water; paint on surface with soft brush (I use a rouge brush) and let dry completely; Use a clean soft cloth (diaper, micro fibre) to buff off dry residue. That's it! No scrubbing no over buffing. Just wipe off the white powder. Then, feel the slippery layer left behind to protect the finish.

Btw, those little hair-line scratches are still there, because Tarnishield isn't an aggressive abrasive. Do you know how those scratches got there in the first place? Chances are that wonderful crushed velvet interior of you trumpet case did it. Don't believe me? Then tell me how, after getting the new horn out of its plastic shipping sleeve, holding it only with clean white cloth gloves and keeping it always in its case, did my last silver trumpet get those hairline scratches?

TarniShield is not aggressive.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Herman Silver website states that the least abrasive polishes that add protection are:

Herman’s Silver wrote:
Blitz Silver Shine Polish – best in class (rinse and dry or let dry and buff, brightens & protects)
3M Tarni-Shield Silver Polish (rinse and dry, brightens & protects)
Twinkle Silver Polish (rinse and dry, brightens & protects)


Herman’s Silver wrote:
WARNING!
Severely Abrasive Polishes & Dips – Do Not Use on Silver

<snip>
• Simichrome Metal Polish
<snip>

I am not sure if this is the same as Zaferis is using.

I assume that Herman knows what he is talking about since he is a silversmith, but I also trust Zaferis having read many of his posts over the years.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Live and learn!

I was given the Semichrome to use on a raw brass intstrument, by a very reputable repair shop. I didn't think twice about then using it on silver as "silver" is listed as one uses on the product. After reading some of the other posts on this thread and doing more searching, on the rare occasion that I polish my trumpets, I won't be using this on any Silver...

Thanks to the hive! Good Stuff!
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windex. Safe for silver and gold. Non abrasive. Good for smudges, finger prints and removing dull haze. Not as effective if your silver has gone full brown/black.
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