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Rotary Trumpet: Getting Started


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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Rotary Trumpet: Getting Started Reply with quote

Does anyone play a Dotzauer rotary trumpet and is willing share their thoughts? I am looking into entering the world of rotary trumpet and would like to know more about these horns. Last thread on the topic dates back to 2008, so I am curious to learn if there is anything new about them.

Any other horns worth recommending- yamaha ytr-936 Bb, Schagerl Salzburg?

Thanks!
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Nikoloas17
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schagerls have an excellent reputation, I don't imagine you could go wrong with one as long as it is in solid condition. I haven't played any of their Bb rotaries, but their Cs are simply amazing. I don't have much familiarity with the Yamaha rotaries, perhaps someone else can chime in there.

If you're looking for other, possibly less expensive options, Cerveny rotaries can sometimes be found for fair prices used, and they have a solid reputation for rotary instruments, from trumpets to tubas. They are based in the Czech Republic. I personally play a Lidl Brno rotary Bb that I picked up from someone here on the Marketplace, and while I think it's a good instrument, I have only seen one other horn from this maker, and haven't seen or heard much about them.
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I agree that you can't go wrong with a Schagerl. The Schagerl Salzburg model from Austin Custom Brass seems to be the most accessible in the states. Chuck Levin's Music Center have some models that are too expensive for someone, like me, who isn't playing in a pro orchestra. The yamaha's seem to pop up every now and then.

The other brands of horns don't seem as accessible, so there is no way for me to try them. I was interested to read the reviews for Dotzauer rotary trumpets, because they look to be more easy to access and have a nice price point.

I have heard of Cerveny, but unfortunately have not read any reviews regarding the quality of horns they produce.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked this some years back. Here's the thread.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74949
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Tom!

I've read the comments on those threads, I was curious to see if anyone had anything to say about the quality/build/sound... new technology that make the Dotzauer comparable to a schagerl, monke, scherzer, lechner, thein. It has been 10 years since the last thread. I was hoping that there were new things to say about them.

It sounds though the Dotzauer is in the same league as B&S rotary tpts (marching band/um-pah band)?
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Nikoloas17
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately I have no experience with Dotzauer horns, so I can't offer much there. I would personally lean towards the Schagerl, as it's a known name, and if you get it from ACB, you know it's going to be in wonderful playing shape. Trent is an honest and knowledgeable gentleman, and I would always trust his word on horns. You might try messaging him on the ACB Facebook page, and see if he has any recommendations. He might have experience with Dotzauers himself, given that he seems to have played every trumpet under the sun at some point!
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i haven't seen it mentioned but Dowids makes amazing rotary trumpets. I used BZ C model in a chamber orchestra at a summer music festival in Germany for two years. The other ones I've played are Monke, Ganter, and Ricco Kühn and I've only tried Schagerl. The Dowids was by far my favorite, responsive but still that smooth rotary sound that's sensitive to dynamics. It was just so easy to play.

My plan at least is to get a Dowids BZ GL 60 C rotary with the double trigger and 2 vent keys and a JK Exclusive 7C to start out. I haven't tried a JK mouthpiece but I figure it would be prudent to get a mouthpiece produced for rotary trumpets.
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikoloas17

Thanks, for the sound advice. I was hoping to hear others comments on the Salzburg model.

O00Joe,
I have heard good things about Dowids. Unfortunately, I am not interested in buying from over seas. I am more interested in buying horns that have dealers in the US or used for a good deal.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJtpt31 wrote:
Nikoloas17

Thanks, for the sound advice. I was hoping to hear others comments on the Salzburg model.

O00Joe,
I have heard good things about Dowids. Unfortunately, I am not interested in buying from over seas. I am more interested in buying horns that have dealers in the US or used for a good deal.


The Salzburg is a smokin' good horn. Call us as we still have a demo model in silver we could sell you for a nice price. Just sold a lacquered model and before we shipped both Kyle and I played it. Kyle (who plays a Ganschhorn everyday) loved the Salzburg and I dug it too! I have played some of the lower end Rotaries out there and haven't been too impressed by them. I think that's because I am spoiled carrying the Schagerl and also having played some of the other elite Rotaries out there (the Dowids are nice as well as the Weimann of course).

Best,
T
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before starting: I am not aprofessional player and I have - unlike many others here - owned (read: played intensely) less than 10 horns in my life, so take this with a grain of salt.

I did own a Lidl Prim Super rotary that I bought new in 1996 and sold last year. I loved the sound and response of the horn, but, as I have rather small hands, the trigger was positioned at the wrong location plus the valves were clunky. So I talked to my local trumpet builder https://www.martin-schmidt-potsdam.de/ and he showed me some of his horns (saving the money right now ...). Now these horns are amazing, as are Weimann, Kühn, B.C. Meyer, Dowids, and many other horns but the have a higher price tag.

To me, the bottom line of this is that ESPECIALLY with rotaries you should look for good, respected brands - otherwise you will not be happy. How does this connect to your Dotzauer question? I may be wrong but it is my perception that at least here in rotary country, they are regarded as solid but not top of the line. So you may be better off buying a used Schagerl, Ganter, or any other good brand - save your money until a really good horn shows up.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is going to depend on what kind of music you want to play. I have a Scherzer rotary in Bb, their version of the Monke design. I chose Bb because I am used to transposing onto Bb and the extra note at the bottom helps. Mine has Vienna keys - which Scherzer don’t charge as much for as other makers. These really do make a difference to security Of entries in the upper register. Something to consider.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I should add that the instruments you are looking at are orchestral rotaries. Band rotaries are generally lighter and of smaller proportions. We have a couple of Cerveny ones we keep for visitors from Germany. They are surprisingly nice for what they cost. A smaller trumpet, but not junk.
Not the big broad sound of the big orchestral rotaries though.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I found all Cervenys (trumpets and flugels) rather stuffy with pretty stiff valves and not so much of a nice tone - again, I am no professional but would rather save the money for a good one, especially if you plan on using it on a fairly regular basis.

The ones I tested were new ones from the last 12 months or so, so older specimens may play quite differently.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are of the tighter variety of instrument. The ones we have have surprisingly smooth valves, but they are well looked after.
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for being dormant. I usually get a notification when someone responds to the thread. Since I wasn't receiving anything, I concluded no one had anything further to say on the matter.

Back to the topic: I did not bother to think in terms of orchestral rotary trumpet vs band rotary trumpet. That is an interesting concept. What I'm looking for is a horn I can learn on that is versatile to use in any setting. I recognize that it will not be an everyday horn (more for personal enjoyment), but if there were ever an opportunity to use it, I could say "hey, I have one." I realize a good rotary horn would cost more than a pro-level Bb trumpet (that's a lot of money for 'personal enjoyment'), if I could find one reasonably priced that would be a win-win.

All the commentary so far has been very helpful and I have been introduced to concepts I have not even considered.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buying used is certainly a viable approach. Not sure about your German, but the German Ebay Kleinanzeigen (sort of like Craigslists or local classifieds) is a good resource for rotaries. At the moment there are several good to very good horns for sale. https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/

I don't know any of the sellers and buying from abroad will have its issues but there you are. I would specifically look at the Ganters and the Dowids - depending on your price range.

Another reliable resource is https://www.vioworld.de/musikermarkt/entry/list/both/17/

I have bought from both resources and everything has been smooth, but I do not know any of the current sellers.

These guys have a very good reputation as well and will likely ship international, but I have only had email contact so far https://www.gebrauchte-blasinstrumente.eu/
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't want to buy from oversees (don't want to pay extra fees on an already expensive item). If I did, it would likely be through Thomann. I'm looking for horns that sell in the US. I saw that Antique Sound Workshop, US based, keeps Dotzauers in stock, according to their website, so that was the reason for my initial inquire about those horns. It seems though that no one has anything new to say about them. I guess they would fall under the band rotary trumpet umbrella. Yamaha's seem to be in circulation, so I'm also curious about those horns.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO, it seems the OP is after a rotary trumpet o play for enjoyment. That is cool.

They want to not pay too much. That is understandable, but the justification of self enjoyment ors't make sense. For personal enjoyment, I'd pay MORE. And it needs to be a good instrument. AND it needs to be sourced in the US?

This is getting a little too specific to be anything but a pipe dream. Sorry, but you'll need to look outside your backyard o get what you want.

I live in Australia, and we have precious few music shops in the entire nation! There are two I would talk to and only 1 am happy to do with. I have purchase only 3 new instruments in my herd of about 53. Of those second hand purchases, maybe 4 or 5 were purchased in Australia. The rest came from other countries, by post mostly, some by UPS/DHL etc. and 1 was carried in for me and I went and picked it up: taking a quick flight to another state! (I was back by lunch time)

There is a risk involved buying unseen, and there is often a cost associated, such as postage, sales tax/duty on entering the country. Then there is getting delivery as well, which can be a challenge. But i is worth it if you know what you are on about. My Schagerl rotary C was carried in for me. Sight unseen, but I did hear it as I got it from a retired principal trumpet of one of the London orchestras. It was filthy inside, and needed a bit of TLC, but is one of the very best instruments I own!

My advice is to hunt overseas and take your time to get a good deal. In the meantime, you can save more and afford a better horn, or at least the pain will be lessened by your additional savings!

cheers

Andy
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BudBix
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW. I bought a used Miraphone Bb rotary on eBay for under 1K. It has a really small bore and I don't really like it. Even with a deeper open mouthpiece it plays squirrelly. I bought a used Miraphone flugelhorn from the TH marketplace and like it much more. I bought a JK flugelhorn mouthpiece from Thomanns for it and it was a smooth transaction. Aside from the longer delivery time it was no different than ordering from a US web site.

To muddy the waters some more. Check out Weimann trumpets. I know of several pro players in/around Atlanta that use them.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody has mentioned Yamahas. They are solid horns that nobody seems to want. They even make an intermediate rotary that might only be available new in Germany. Used you might find one on ebay. You don't need to worry about them being absolute dogs, whereas other cheap rotary trumpets might be. A Yamaha would be a decent compromise for somebody not willing to shell out thousands for a used horn. A good brand in Europe, used will start out around 2000 euros used. You might find a Yamaha in the US for 1200-1500$.

The Yamahas are also user friendly. You can pick them up and play them, which might seem obvious if you've never played a rotary. A lot of them aren't like that. I has a Monke Bb that had a great sound, but playing it was a chore. It always felt as if there was something stuck in the leadpipe. Actually, that once happened, but removing the invader didn't make much difference in the blow.

Rotary trumpets are different animals. Beware, and don't buy the cheapies on German ebay. Almost guranteed to be dogs.


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