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Bach 5 c alternatives


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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. When comparing mouthpieces, it's imperative to follow what manufacturers say is equivalent instead of universal charts. As ya'll say, measurement discrepancies.

Maybe we have different Bach 5C rims or impressions of it? For me the Stork Vacchiano 4 and Studio Master 6 have the same bite and general feel except wider as my everyday use VBC. 5C. It also feels that way with my VBC. 5B that I sometimes use. (Are 5Bs and 5Cs rima supposed to be the same?) The rims of my Bach 5C collection vary depending on the era.
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mark61
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really interesting. Kinda like jeans, you grab 3 pair of the same size and brand and all 3 fit different. You walk away with one pair that fits just the way you like. What to do ?
Thanks you guys

Mark
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spach
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I landed on the Bach 6BM, and was very happy with it. Check it out.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread in any way.

It's been a while since I've posted on this forum due to work.

I've read Jens Lindemann's comment on mouthpieces, and it got me thinking about mine. I've been playing on a few 3C sizes for years now, however, I'm wondering if they are too big for me. I have an old Bach 5C (all capital letters) I picked up somewhere, and I recently played it for a bit. The size felt good and I like the warm sound it gives me, but the rim feels a bit too round.

I've been playing a Reeves Classical 3C, an ACB 3C, and a Curry 3C (dot) -- all which are comfortable but feel bigger than the Bach 5C. Would the ACB 5C or Curry 5C feel similar to the Bach 5C in size but with a more comfortable rim? Or are they a lot different from the Bach 5C?

Thank you for the help!
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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bender-offender wrote:
Hi,

I've been playing a Reeves Classical 3C, an ACB 3C, and a Curry 3C (dot) -- all which are comfortable but feel bigger than the Bach 5C. Would the ACB 5C or Curry 5C feel similar to the Bach 5C in size but with a more comfortable rim? Or are they a lot different from the Bach 5C?

Thank you for the help!


The Curry 5C (the 5 rim in general) is more comfy than the Bach 5 and more efficient. It opened up my sound a lot. Due to the shape of the rim, the cup may feel a bit larger, more like a 3 Bach. You have to try one for yourself to see if it works for you. For me, it was a real game changer.
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can vouch for the Curry 5C, it's an excellent all-round mouthpiece. I consider it to be a standard along side the Bach 5C. The rims feel exactly the same to me. Like I said before, it does sound a little different than a Bach 5C. The best way I can describe it is if Bach is "deee" then Curry is "daaah" (and GR would be "doooh"). Not better or worse, just different.

I can also vouch for the Bach 6BM (a 6B with 26 throat and 24 backbore), I use it as an orchestral Bb mouthpiece. The size difference is almost negligible. It definitely has a "darker" sound but still with a lot of color and sparkle. I believe the 6B cup is different than other Bach Bs, it is more bowl/C-shaped and less funnel/V-shaped. It has none if the brittleness that some V-shaped cups can have.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Bach 6BM is a good mouthpiece if you can play a smaller diameter cup. Just the right combination of richness, edge, and resistance.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I’m curious to try a Curry 5C, but if the rim feels like the Bach (as Joe stated), then I’m hesitant about it. Like I said, the Bach feels good size-wise, but the rim’s roundness isn’t as comfy as the 3C mps I mentioned. It seems to push more into my lips versus a flatter rim.

On the other hand, I also have a Reeves 42M which feels close in size to the Bach 5C, but I feel like it has less of an alpha angle (is that correct? The inner rim) than something like the Reeves Classical 3C or the ACB 3C (both which I like). At the same time, I have a GR 66M with what feels like a higher alpha angle than the fore mentioned 3Cs, though it’s a bit too sharp for my tastes.

If anyone has any expierences with an ACB 5C, I would appreciate the feedback as well.

Thanks!
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bender-offender wrote:
If anyone has any expierences with an ACB 5C, I would appreciate the feedback as well.

My teacher moved me to a Bach Artisan 5C. I then moved to a Curry 5C because it felt better. I tried the ACB 5C and 5CS in the modern blank - my teacher liked the tone, but I seemed to have endurance issues with them.

I'm currently playing on an ACB FAB-5, and I like it - a lot. I like it enough that I got the matching Flugelhorn piece, and I'm bugging them for a Cornet version. (You listening Austin? I want a FAB-5 Cornet piece!)

Gary.
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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghelbig wrote:

I'm currently playing on an ACB FAB-5, and I like it - a lot. I like it enough that I got the matching Flugelhorn piece, and I'm bugging them for a Cornet version. (You listening Austin? I want a FAB-5 Cornet piece!)

Gary.


What model is the ACB FAB-5? I can't find it on their site.
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locutus2k wrote:
What model is the ACB FAB-5? I can't find it on their site.

http://www.austincustombrass.mybigcommerce.com/acb-introductory-fabrication-model-acb-5/

Gary.

And while we're on 5C's, here's one for professionals that play at a beginner level:
https://www.ebay.com/p/Professional-Trumpet-5c-Mouth-Piece-Mouthpiece-5c/555796315


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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Gary, for the detailed explanation. The Fab-5 sounds very interesting. Does it produce a brighter tone than the standard 5C?

Also, since I haven’t put much testing into a Bach 5C yet, do 5C mps have a larger diameter than a 3C in general? I’m asking because when I do the Bob Reeves mouthpiece estimator thingy, putting in a Bach 5C tells me it’s equivalent is a Reeves 43.5. Isn’t the 43.5 a wide rim?
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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't blind trust comparative charts: the 43.5 is nothing like a 5C i can say this for sure since i have both of these pieces. The 43.5 as you suspect is in the 3C range but a very different piece. And, as a general rule, a 5C is always smaller than 3C but of course this is not always true: the JK Exclusive 5C, for example, is something like a 1 1/2C ... bottom line: you must try for yourself, on your lips and see what it feels like.
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bender-offender wrote:
Thank you, Gary, for the detailed explanation. The Fab-5 sounds very interesting. Does it produce a brighter tone than the standard 5C?

I don't think so; I can't hear much difference from my side of the bell between the Curry 5C and the ACB FAB-5. I didn't spend a lot of time on the Bach 5C.

bender-offender wrote:
Also, since I haven’t put much testing into a Bach 5C yet, do 5C mps have a larger diameter than a 3C in general? I’m asking because when I do the Bob Reeves mouthpiece estimator thingy, putting in a Bach 5C tells me it’s equivalent is a Reeves 43.5. Isn’t the 43.5 a wide rim?

The only answer I have is: My Curry 5C feels like a smaller diameter than the Curry 3C-dot - to me.

Gary.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bender-offender wrote:
Also, since I haven’t put much testing into a Bach 5C yet, do 5C mps have a larger diameter than a 3C in general? I’m asking because when I do the Bob Reeves mouthpiece estimator thingy, putting in a Bach 5C tells me it’s equivalent is a Reeves 43.5. Isn’t the 43.5 a wide rim?


The actual inner cup diameter of the typical 5C is nearly identical to that of a 3C. But the 5C feels smaller in diameter to most players due to its more pronounced high point of the rim being closer to the cup (inner) side of the rim (See the Comparator image below).

Regarding the Reeves mouthpiece estimator and also the comparative descriptions on the Reeves site, that information is based on which mouthpieces "feel" similar to the various Reeves models, and has little to nothing to do with actual measurement comparisons. For instance, Reeves claims that the Reeves 42 rim is "functionally similar to" a Bach Elkhart 3C rim (among others), even though the actual inner rim diameter of a Reeves 42 rim is about the same as the much smaller Bach 10-1/2C rim.


https://i.postimg.cc/63kt2HPg/Bach-3-C-red-vs-Bach-5-C-green.jpg
Bach 3C (red) vs. Bach 5C (green)

Click on the image to open it full-sized in a separate window.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Last edited by John Mohan on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, both, for the explanations. I'd really like to try both the Curry 5C and the ACB Fab5 or 5C, but I really don't want to do the whole safari thing (again). I know the best way is to go to a music store and test them, however, the closest store that may have at least the Currys is a good hour & half away.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

I guess we were posting at the same time and I missed your reply. Thank you for the explanation concerning the 5C and the 3C. I understand what you mean about the "high point" of the 5C causing it to feel smaller.

I guess I'll keep playing what I have for now and see if it works.

Thanks again!
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O00Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I totally forgot about the Bach Artisan 5C. It is a Bach 5C with a slightly softer bite (higher alpha angle) and tiny bit shallower cup. I use mine for chamber stuff on Bb sometimes, it seems easier to do light stuff with


The Bach 6B (snd 6C?) has a rim similar to a 3C. Flatter with less bite than 5C
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1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Vincent Bach Corp. 5C & 6BM, Curry 5DE
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C26B & 4D26B
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork Studio Master SP6
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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, just today i've received an Hammond 5MB and is a wonderful piece. The rim is similar to the Bach 5 but much easier on the lips (a bit flatter), cup is somewhat shallower (but not a shallow cup by any means) and this thing plays itself: so EASY to play and with a centered, versatile sound.
Very very good option for 5C players.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m going to work with the Bach 5C for a bit longer to see if it works for me before I make any additional purchases. I’d hate to buy one of the mpcs mentioned and end up not digging the size. Thanks for all the insight and help!
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