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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7770
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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 Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, kid, take them up on the lessons, but I'd offer you one simple exercise/test. (Disclaimer- I'm not an Adam student...)
Play a first space F on your Bb trumpet. Pull off your tuning slide and see if that's the same pitch you are playing when you play without the slide. Bet you're closer to Eb or even D.
So, using a combination of raising and moving your tongue forward so that it either touches or hovers near the top of your bottom teeth, as well as a little upward pressure from the lower lip and some inward pressure from the part of your lips that contact the outer edge of the mouthpiece on both sides (NOT the corners of your mouth), as well as a bit more energy in your wind stream, see if you can't bring the pitch up to the F. Don't try to blow your guts out, and don't dwell on what you're actually doing as much as just listening to the sound and pitch you're producing. Do some 8 count sustains at around quarter note=60. Also try tonguing eighth notes and even sixteenths at that tempo if you feel you're getting the hang of it, being careful to keep that tongue in place. (Hint- you won't be tonguing with the tip/end of the tongue if you're doing it properly.) If you're searching for a vocal syllable to use, I suggest something between Tew/Hew and Tay/Tee. (For credibility sake, I should also tell you to take a full and relaxed breath, and if you are seated, put all the weight of your body on your butt- don't rise upwards like so many of us do when we think we're moving more wind. It actually inhibits both the flow and the ability to take that full, relaxed breath.)
This may help, but find someone to help you out so you aren't just beating the same dead horse, over and over. When we're not doing things properly, we can work all we want and never make much progress. There are literally tens of thousands of brass players out there trying, trying, trying, and not making any headway. Good luck to you. |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | Just let me know how to pay my portion once everything is worked out.
Brad |
Same. |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys,
Matt has reached out to me and we will be setting up a time for the first lesson. I'll contact you guys through either Private Message or e-mail if you have the e-mail thing activated on the TH, and we can work out the payments, which we can take care of after each of Matt's two lessons you guys are involved with. I have a Merchant Account so I can take Credit Cards or ATM cards over the phone or if you want you can mail me checks.
Very nice of you three!
Cheers,
John |
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Matt007Trumpet
New Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:37 pm Post subject: Thanks |
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| John Mohan wrote: | Hi guys,
Matt has reached out to me and we will be setting up a time for the first lesson. I'll contact you guys through either Private Message or e-mail if you have the e-mail thing activated on the TH, and we can work out the payments, which we can take care of after each of Matt's two lessons you guys are involved with. I have a Merchant Account so I can take Credit Cards or ATM cards over the phone or if you want you can mail me checks.
Very nice of you three!
Cheers,
John |
Yes, thank you all again for contributing so generously. |
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Winghorn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2159
Location: Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Matt, all the best to you.
With the attitude and maturity you have shown in your posts, I know you have what takes to reach your trumpet playing goals.
I hope you will continue to provide us with updates along the way.
Steve |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Winghorn wrote: | Matt, all the best to you.
With the attitude and maturity you have shown in your posts, I know you have what takes to reach your trumpet playing goals.
I hope you will continue to provide us with updates along the way.
Steve |
Ditto above!
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Lip problems and range |
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| Matt007Trumpet wrote: | Hello, I am a high school trumpet player of 6 years who has always had a subpar range.
I am not really sure what I am doing wrong, no matter how much air I put through the horn, anything above an A directly above the staff just sounds airy and sputters out after a few seconds. It is my suspicion that my lips may be the problem, ....
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If anyone has some tips, they would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks |
I haven't read the whole thread but I want to throw something at you even if it's been said prior to my post.
Please try blowing more softly. I feel high notes have to be developed at small volume and only after you get them can you build them. Try running up the scale at normal volume and you will probably tighten around e. Try as softy as you make a good tone and try to go softer as you ascend. You may not go higher today but it will probably fell better. Keep this up and you will start to see that you will get above g without tension or tightness. From there work up as you can. This has worked wonders for me, my 1 hour range is now hi g- a and 6 months ago it was hi c. Drops off from there hard but the more I do what I told you the more consistent and strong it becomes. There is much more to it all but blowing softly is much quicker, more efficient and ensures more endurance for some of the better players I have heard. You ever notice most greats just don't look like its work? There are a lot of things people will tell you that will help and some methods directly contradict what I have said. BUTT until I did this all the furling, frowning, curling,crunching, and everything was icing where there was no cake. I think what I told you is the cake, the icing may b another 3 -4 notes later. This can get you started till the other becomes necessary. |
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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What the O/P is looking for is just ordinary range. I call "ordinary range" the ability to blow a solid F above high C. Or the note on top of the third ledger line, treble clef.
The problem for most trumpe players is that "ordinary range" is not so common. The great majority of trumpet players never attain the ability to blow a high F. And the reason for their ceiling in sound at least in general way, is usually the same. Their upper lip is not in a position relative to their teeth and mouthpiece rim. They have "blocked the sound" from coming out. And if you can get them to listen to you while explaining the corrective measures necessary? You can usually help to have them break through their range limitation. Often within minutes.
It's a little like eliminating a nasty "slice" from a golfer's swing. While he may feel slightly uncomfortable with the mildly adjusted embouchure he will certainly enjoy the immediate anch greater range increase. It is only a matter of time until the new, superior embouchure formation becomes) natural. The trumpet player then soon forgeting his former limited condition.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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shakuhachi
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The problem for most trumpe players is that "ordinary range" is not so common. The great majority of trumpet players never attain the ability to blow a high F. And the reason for their ceiling in sound at least in general way, is usually the same. Their upper lip is not in a position relative to their teeth and mouthpiece rim. They have "blocked the sound" from coming out. And if you can get them to listen to you while explaining the corrective measures necessary? You can usually help to have them break through their range limitation. Often within minutes. |
+1
.....time is less needed for "developing" - it is more needed for "exploring" when it comes to physical aspects of trumpet playing. |
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Benge.nut
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 695
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: | | Quote: | | The problem for most trumpe players is that "ordinary range" is not so common. The great majority of trumpet players never attain the ability to blow a high F. And the reason for their ceiling in sound at least in general way, is usually the same. Their upper lip is not in a position relative to their teeth and mouthpiece rim. They have "blocked the sound" from coming out. And if you can get them to listen to you while explaining the corrective measures necessary? You can usually help to have them break through their range limitation. Often within minutes. |
+1
.....time is less needed for "developing" - it is more needed for "exploring" when it comes to physical aspects of trumpet playing. |
^^^ Well said. People always say "more air, build strength, build chop power, more diaphragm muscle strength"
When I finally realized HOW to use my chops and position them through experimentation and exploration, I NEVER thought in terms of strength or musculature again. |
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ATrumpetBrony
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 152
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Lip problems and range |
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| Rod Haney wrote: |
Please try blowing more softly. I feel high notes have to be developed at small volume and only after you get them can you build them. |
+1
I've found that using a bit less air lets the note speak. I think typically I'd be inclined to add more pressure when adding air to hold back the amount of power/pressure created by the air, causing the note to sort of "shut off" because you're choking the chops/closing the aperture with the mpc pressure.
Playing softly seems to allow the air to not get cut off because, as I've seen in my playing, it takes less pressure to play softly in general as long as there are no leaks/significant air-loss.
After months of working on it, high notes speak a lot easier with less air, and I can get some bright, brassy B's and C's above the staff without the use of much air.
But this is all from my personal experience, take it with a grain of salt!
I write more to remind myself and explain it to myself, maybe it can be of help to someone.
_________________
ATB
It's not what you play...
It's HOW you play |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lip problems and range |
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| ATrumpetBrony wrote: | | Rod Haney wrote: |
Please try blowing more softly. I feel high notes have to be developed at small volume and only after you get them can you build them. |
+1
I've found that using a bit less air lets the note speak. I think typically I'd be inclined to add more pressure when adding air to hold back the amount of power/pressure created by the air, causing the note to sort of "shut off" because you're choking the chops/closing the aperture with the mpc pressure.
Playing softly seems to allow the air to not get cut off because, as I've seen in my playing, it takes less pressure to play softly in general as long as there are no leaks/significant air-loss.
After months of working on it, high notes speak a lot easier with less air, and I can get some bright, brassy B's and C's above the staff without the use of much air.
But this is all from my personal experience, take it with a grain of salt!
I write more to remind myself and explain it to myself, maybe it can be of help to someone. |
That's just been my experience as well. Chasing something I haven't even made speak is my point. Making it loud complicates things until you get the knack of getting the note. Once you know how it feels and what is working to make it happen, Ive found that making it strong after I touch it repeatedly is easier than finding it. I'm having real trouble finding my hi a right now but can touch higher notes. I'm a little stuck on whether to develop one at a time or try the slight skip to Bb that seems to want to occur. I really only own a hi d/e after playing 1.5 to 2 hours and can play them without too much trouble. The F and G are there but not something I would play yet, but they sound even at end of an hour. THe A is never there but sometimes the Bb squeaks out, and only very early in my play and never in a scale or slur up - so its on the future agenda. I think I'm gonna spend a few months trying to own the e and maybe the f anytime and maybe the G for when needed. So I also do a Jim Manley routine and a Frank Minear routine on alternating days to build and reinforce the pp play level and put the mechanics in a position to ascend. It's just 1 way and I'm learning it for health reasons but the benefits are huge if you suspend intuitive play and trust in the method (probably like many).
I really don't advocate anything more to the young man other than to learn how things work behind the mouthpiece, and try to be in touch with how these things do and don't work together. I have learned a lot from others, but my best teacher is simply being aware of what's going in your body (and mind) and what happens when I blow it thru an amplifier (trumpet). I spend a lot of time on a leadpipe and MP and controlling tone and volume with my breathing. I don't think I will ever begin to master any of this but it is a more cerebral approach that has worked wonders for me in a timeframe I wouldn't have believed 15 months ago.
Rod |
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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While I like to define what the physical elements to range are it still seems that those who really learn to use their air support improve their upper register faster. On average that is and when compared to all the other sl)ystems which I've seen.
However the actual understanding of the physics and its sincere application generally shows the most impressive results. That is if the teacher can win the student over. But if he does apply himself correctly?
You'll often see dramatic increases in range. Kids who've never hit a high D their whole life suddenly blowing monster high G's through double C. And above too.
Range tends not to come in a pair of extra notes. Like if you can't play above high C. You won't just add the C# and D above to your register. Instead once you finally figure it out?
At least a perfect or maybe an octave and more will drop right into your lap. Its just as easy to add an entire octave into your practice range. It is taking it from the practice room to the stage where we tend add it note by note. But the actual ability to blow high G and double C etc seems to come literally overnight.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionel wrote: | .....
At least a perfect or maybe an octave and more will drop right into your lap. Its just as easy to add an entire octave into your practice range. It is taking it from the practice room to the stage where we tend add it note by note. But the actual ability to blow high G and double C etc seems to come literally overnight. |
Lionel I hope you are right and the sun sets on my a$$ real soon. I agree on the practice room and the job is different and you don't own it unless it's there at the end. It's a journey, and I hope this work pays off on the manner you say. I just heard a guy in Fla. play a triple f# that actually sounded like a note. That's what 5 full octaves without pedals. In 1967 when I truly owned that hi g that was unheard of. The Kenton book only had 2 charts that called for dbl c and calling those depended on who was on lead or utility. What can be done amazes and I have actually heard guys play melodically above double range. I'll be tickled to own the g.
Rod |
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | Hi guys,
Matt has reached out to me and we will be setting up a time for the first lesson. |
Man is this heart-warming to read. Very much what TH should be about!
I am personally very curious about the pic Matt posted. The "bump" on his upper lip, is that the ring from his mouthpiece rim?
If it is I have a very good idea what Mr. Mohan will do to correct that, and it really is a necessity. If that isn't what we're looking at, then that "bump" is inside the cup of the mouthpiece, and I have no idea what's going on.
Either way I'm pretty sure we all look forward to Matt posting another video clip of his playing after a month or so, showing us some greatly straightened-out chops, finally having some real progress to show for all his hard work. Hang in there, young man! |
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bender-offender
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I randomly found this thread, read a few posts, then kept reading more until the end. It’s like a novel without a finale — what was the outcome? Did Matt get the lessons from Mr. Mohan? 
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| bender-offender wrote: | | I randomly found this thread, read a few posts, then kept reading more until the end. It’s like a novel without a finale — what was the outcome? Did Matt get the lessons from Mr. Mohan? |
I said I would be one of the volunteer contributors had it happened, I don’t think the person ever set things up with John. I don’t know any details, but it sounded to me like a student who blew a nice opportunity for some lessons with a very qualified teacher.
And FREE lessons at that. 🙄 Again, no idea about the circumstances, but there are kids (as well as adults) who post here claiming to want help, but don’t really want it.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hi everybody,
There was some correspondence between Matt and me back then, but then he seemed to drop off the map.
Matt if you're reading this and would like another shot at it I've got time right now (but I imagine the generous "scholarship offer" from the others here is probably well past its final sell-by date).
Cheers,
John |
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