Jupiter XO / LA Benge 3x?

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

I've played on a Carol 506 and now have a Bach tr200. In the distant past I had a Bach 37. I am looking for a cheapish pro trumpet and have three trumpets available locally I can try that are pretty reasonable: 2 LA Benge 3x's and an almost new Jupiter 1602.

As a comeback player firmly in the amateur realm, I probably should go for the Jupiter since it's unlikely to have repair issues like the Benges may have (where valves may be old and I've heard readrot is an issue).

For your average community band player with an imperfect ear, what should I think about in making this decision? What would have the best resale if I wanted to sell it again in 6 months? What's a good instrument to have tried for a while?

Complicating the decision is the fact that Benge sellers are listing their trumpets in the $1100-$1500 range, despite the fact that they have flaws (small dent in leadpipe on one, heavily played valves on the other, silver wear), while the Jupiter is several hundred cheaper.

[cgaiii]

There are a variety of 1602 trumpets with different materials for the bells and some different features. Is this the base model 1602s or another model.

Regardless of that, have you played it? Do you like how it plays or do you like your Bach better? I do not know the Jupiter and have never played one but the design may be closer to what you are used to than the LA Benge 3x. Just from the stats, the 3x is a large bore horn 464, quite a different design from what you are used to. From what people say about it, it may be more open than you are used to. You would have to play it to be sure.

My advice is to play the horns. If they are junk (bad valves, etc.), you will know when you play them. If they do not fit you, you will know it. If you play one and it blows you away, then that is the one you should get. If you are moving up to a professional trumpet, you want to get one you like and enjoy playing and one that will hold up, but most of all one that you like playing. Just because a horn is "professional" does not mean it is better for you.

I have never played a Bach TR200, but I played an intermediate Yamaha (4335G SP) for a long time. As long my playing was within its capabilities, it sounded and played well. Very nice tone. (I still have it an use it when I am outside and worried about damaging a better horn.) Only when I outgrew it, did I find a gained a lot from moving to a professional horn. Looking at the TR200, it looks like a similar level of horn. If you like it and it plays well for you, you might find the Jupiter is not that much improvement. You can only tell by playing it. (Sometimes just one playing is not enough, you might ask the seller if you could take it on trial for a few days or a week -- money back proposition if you find it is not right.)
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

[HERMOKIWI]

If you're patient you can get an LA Benge in good condition for $1,000 or less. In terms of resale, there is a market for LA Benge trumpets so you shouldn't have difficulty selling it later if it's still in good condition and you price it right.

Your best insurance against buying a horn needing repair is to inspect it yourself or have a trusted tech inspect it before you buy it or get a moneyback guarantee and have it checked out once it arrives.

Developing red rot in the leadpipe is a potential problem for any horn with a yellow brass leadpipe so this issue is not isolated to Benge trumpets. "Red rot" is a nasty sounding description of dezincification but even after it develops it can take decades for it to compromise the playing characteristics of a horn. It's a cosmetic issue long before it's a performance issue but if it bothers you replacing the leadpipe is a pretty simple job for a pro.

If it was me I'd get an LA Benge over the Jupiter.
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HERMOKIWI

[kehaulani]

The Benge 3X is a large bore horn? Not mine. It's:
3X ML .460 and,
3X+ MLP .464.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[dstdenis]

Depends on whether you're more interested in playability, protecting your investment, or collectability.

If it's in new condition, an XO Brass 1602s is a great choice for playability. It's a good all-arounder that sounds great and is easy to play.

The Benges are better choices for collectability. Nostalgia, Benge mystique and all that. If they're in rough shape, playability might be a problem. Then you'd have to decide whether to invest in repairs to get the horn in good playing shape again, which could put you upside down on your investment. If you're really into Benges, maybe it'd be worth it to you.

Can't tell you what you should do, but that's how I'd think about it.
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Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Brad361]

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Thank you all for the thoughts on this. Part of the challenge is often I buy "too quick," although so far things have worked out for me. The first Carol was badly tarnished when I bought it and the notes were wonky. When I got home I realized one of the valves was in backwards! With the Bach TR200, there was also terrible tarnish and the valves were weird (the seller didn't have valve oil and I didn't bring any). It has turned out to be a good trumpet, and I probably should just stick with it. At the same time, I do feel like I want to look around before I really settle down. I actually wish I could try a larger bore trumpet. I'd had my eye on a Holton 103, which I think is like a Bach 72, but it sold. In my current band, there's an assortment of Bachs, Benge, Getzen, and so on. Benge seems to have a lot of loyalty here so I should probably try to get access to one. I wish there were trumpet hangout in my area so I could try things out. With Benges I've heard they project very well. Ironically, since I'm only a so-so player, mostly doing 2nd/3rd part, initially I probably don't want a trumpet with laser like focus and excellent projection

[Brad361]

You’re certainly not alone, especially on this forum, when it comes to buying multiple horns. Lots of us do it for various reasons. But sometimes we tend to forget that the overwhelming majority of what comes out of the bell has much more to do with the player than it does the instrument. Given the circumstances you describe, I would buy whichever horn I prefer, and not concern myself with what anyone else in the section plays. Or, don’t buy anything, put that dough towards some private lessons (which is NOT intended as any commentary on your playing; obviously no one here has heard you).

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[BraeGrimes]

Not to confuse the issue, but there are many other horns out there! The Yamaha YTR-6335, 6345G, and 5335GII, as well as the new 5330MRC horn are all around the same price of a new Jupiter. If you're looking at secondhand and are worried about parts and wear, then choose a horn that you can still get parts for (you can still get parts for Benges, but they are a little harder to find and because of the age of them you might find yourself having to do more work to them sooner rather than later).

I did a quick search on Dillons and there's pages of horns in the sub-$2.5k Used and New category.

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Thank you for the comments. Brae Grimes, I'd definitely try a Yamaha if one came along, and I'd seen a 4000 series for sale recently. I'd like to try a better Yamaha if I get the chance. Brad361, your comment is also helpful, especially in terms of focusing on playing. I am doing more conscientious practice. I keep hitting new bumps along the way. Lately I'm wishing I could play more nimbly with better response and clarity.

There are trumpets that I would "like to have owned." For amateurs it can be hard to discern ourselves what someone means when they say that that a Bachs tend to be stuffy, or Benges are responsive, etc., etc. Presumably you have to have tried one for a while yourself or have developed a good ear.

Dillons is not far and I will probably go up and spend a day there sometime. 2.5k is still pretty pricey for me I have small kids at home, so I probably shouldn't have all that nice of a trumpet for a while.

The Jupiter appeals to me because you can swap out slides and try different weights, which could also be good to have done, and Jupiter has a reputation for good quality at a lower price point. The Benge is appealing just because I meet a certain number of Benge superfans and I'm curious. I'm not in a rush.