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Reinhardt-Caruso connection?



 
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Type3B
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Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 49
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reinhardt-Caruso connection? Reply with quote

Hello All – I studied with Doc in Philly in the 1970s, and much more recently with Dave Sheetz here in New Hampshire. I’m now 67, still going strong, playing lead trumpet in a local big band, still learning from Doc’s teachings and from this forum. I’m committed to the Reinhardt system, but also I’ve learned a lot from the teachings of other great instructors and their books. Recently, I’ve had excellent results with Carmine Caruso’s "Musical Calisthenics for Brass." So, two questions. First, did Doc and Caruso know each other, and if so, how well—to the point of sharing ideas? They were contemporaries (Doc 1908-89; Caruso 1904-87), with Doc based in Philly, and Caruso in New York City—not very far apart. (I hope Dave Sheetz is reading this, because if anyone knows the answer to this, it’s probably him). Second, which, if any, of Doc’s exercises might be similar to the ones in Caruso’s "Musical Calisthenics for Brass"? Perhaps replies could reference "The Reinhardt Routines," which Rich Willey and Dave Sheetz did such a great job on. Thanks!
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was the golden era of chop docs. Caruso, Reinhardt, Stamp on the West Coast. I wish that I had studied with any one of these guys. The only exercise that may be common between Caruso and the Pivot System as far as I know is the spider web. I have no idea whether these two men knew each other. Their respective methods are like night and day. Caruso as far as I know had no problems with his students practicing different methods. Reinhardt, I wouldn't know. From what I've gleaned from Dave Sheetz, there might have been a rivalry between the students of each teacher, but between the teachers themselves? Don't know. Their methods were pretty far apart from each other.
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JoshMizruchi
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say probably the Pivot Stabilizer and maybe the Spider Web. Also maybe the Tetrachord Routine because that also uses intervals.

What Reinhardt and Caruso have in common is that both methods use nose-breathing, both encourage the idea of leaving the mouthpiece on your face during exercises to lock in your chops (although in the Caruso 6 notes and seconds, the mouthpiece NEVER comes off your face until you finish and Reinhardt still has you taking the horn off your face regularly).

Both methods also are very feel-oriented as well, which is a big plus.

They are pretty different methods overall. Reinhardt is very scientific; you really get a full-scale description of what's going on in the mouthpiece, air-stream directions, what the tongue is doing and on and on. Caruso has the opposite philosophy, more like, "play the exercises, relax, don't worry, build the muscles and your chops will do what they need to do." There's merit to both approaches.
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pepperdean
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Location: Johnson City, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I studied with both of these gentlemen in the late 60s and very early 70s. I don't remember either mentioning the other.

I always felt like they both were addressing the same embouchure dynamic from opposite directions. Carmine called it the "twist" - the movement of the wrist/bell/ mouthpiece on the chops that kept the aperture aligned with the opening of the teeth. His basic exercises were meant to program reflex actions to keep that alignment. Doc noted the motion of the mouthpiece on the chops, classified the variations, and made the player aware of the correct motion, so that action could be optimized.

That's my take on the very basic part of their teachings. One thing they differed on with more advanced work was the use of pedal tones. Carmine used them extensively.

Another commonality, they both believed the best performance came from using a high register setting for all playing - bringing down the top - and both believed in learning efficiency by working in, or from, the high register.

It's bee a long time but those are principles that still guide my practicing.

Alan
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