• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Ensemble Exercises for a bigger sound



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
akerber41
New Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Location: Madison, WI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Ensemble Exercises for a bigger sound Reply with quote

I am a trumpet player leading a big band, and my trumpet section needs some work. They tend to play too timidly (we play a hybrid of swing and rock 'n' roll, so I need some more oomph), and I'd like to help them develop a more imposing ensemble sound. I'm a fairly accomplished player myself, but I have very little teaching experience, so I'm looking for exercises that we can do as a group that can help ground my continuous advice of "more air". (note: although I am a trumpet player, I do understand the difference between presence and volume, so I'm not trying to just make them play louder) I didn't know enough about music to really grasp the mechanics of what I was learning during my earlier fundamentals phases, so while I have the skills myself, I can't teach them effectively.

I've been doing some low tones with varying dynamics, as poor air support in the low register becomes very apparent (in contrast to the middle register), so that's been helping. We're also working on some listening, I've been using some Maynard Ferguson recordings as examples because even outside of Maynard, his trumpet section has a sound that's similar to what I'm going for. If you have any ideas of great trumpet sections from music history, that would be great as well.

But my main thing is that I need some exercises we can do, as I'm having trouble articulating the specifics of faster/more/high or low pressure air. I would like to work on:

-Moving more air correctly and effectively at multiple volumes
-Playing with a more rounded/fat sound (regardless of volume)
-Tuning to each other

Any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated, thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually sound problems are not air problems. If the players don't have tonal development more air pressure will yield little improvement.
Have the players practice low and softly in their individual practice to develop tonal efficiency and clean attacks. Not just long tones but simple exercises such as Clarke studies, Vizzutti book 1, or Pat Harbison's technical studies for modern trumpet. Use varying articulations and slur patterns.

Save the dynamic playing for rehearsals and gigs and you may be surprised at the result.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the above, keep in mind that good ensemble intonation has a direct effect on balance and carrying presence.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1459
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Ensemble Exercises for a bigger sound Reply with quote

akerber41 wrote:
I am a trumpet player leading a big band, and my trumpet section needs some work. They tend to play too timidly (we play a hybrid of swing and rock 'n' roll, so I need some more oomph), and I'd like to help them develop a more imposing ensemble sound. I'm a fairly accomplished player myself, but I have very little teaching experience, so I'm looking for exercises that we can do as a group that can help ground my continuous advice of "more air". (note: although I am a trumpet player, I do understand the difference between presence and volume, so I'm not trying to just make them play louder) I didn't know enough about music to really grasp the mechanics of what I was learning during my earlier fundamentals phases, so while I have the skills myself, I can't teach them effectively.

I've been doing some low tones with varying dynamics, as poor air support in the low register becomes very apparent (in contrast to the middle register), so that's been helping. We're also working on some listening, I've been using some Maynard Ferguson recordings as examples because even outside of Maynard, his trumpet section has a sound that's similar to what I'm going for. If you have any ideas of great trumpet sections from music history, that would be great as well.

But my main thing is that I need some exercises we can do, as I'm having trouble articulating the specifics of faster/more/high or low pressure air. I would like to work on:

-Moving more air correctly and effectively at multiple volumes
-Playing with a more rounded/fat sound (regardless of volume)
-Tuning to each other

Any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated, thank you!



In the trumpet section of my big band we have the same problems, more or less.
1)Getting that fat sound 2)intonation 3)becoming more responsive so as not to step in a fraction of a second too late

One intervention I made was to have the four of us play quartets, mostly chorals - finding these on the net ( www.free-scores.com ). Playing these softly, pp, is very revealing also demanding silent counting - no help from a rhythm section. Also the idea is to have people play beautifully, not blasting away - hence becoming attentive to attacks, holding the notes to their full value etc. Intonation turned out to be a main problem - but was thus highlited. And could be addressed in a "safe atmosphere" - no one had to be stressed by others - as during a gig.
Section rehearsals based on the current scores was/is also helpful.
Plus having people practice.....
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstdenis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suggestions:

1. Get the bells out of their stands, either above or off to the sides.

2. Make sure the rhythm section isn’t playing too loud.

3. Make sure everyone is playing in tune with a good sound.

4. Encourage everyone to play together with style. It’s a more fun, positive approach than talking about mechanics, and yet it will lead them toward the sound you want.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3275
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Ensemble Exercises for a bigger sound Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:

...
3)becoming more responsive so as not to step in a fraction of a second too late ...

---------------------------------------------------
With 'timid players', late & too soft is a problem. It is vital to have the 'air' ready to play, and the confidence (and skill) to release the note at the correct time and with the appropriate loudness.

Many scores are marked with the 'ensemble' loudness, but if the actual notes are part of a melody line they need to be slightly louder.

For timing of articulations, hand clapping the rhythm can help everyone learn to be in sync.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mafields627
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3774
Location: AL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out The Breathing Gym.
_________________
--Matt--

No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhahntpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
Location: Southington CT

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long tones, lip bends, lip slurs, and breathing exercises.
_________________
Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVL
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 892
Location: Nissa, France

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello
i agree with posters like kalijah & al. about developping the resonance and cleanness by practicing pp. Teach them do it with a tonic aperture, i mean without pinching/closing the aperture; try, playing pp, to get and keep the tonicity and aperture you'll use while playing ff.
This with the right lip alignment/horn angle, when they add the breath and abdominal support, they'll able to play loud with a rich sound.
Practicing the aperture control with the Bobby Shew "yes-no" exercice will help too.
best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gchun01
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: uit Reply with quote

Lots of good suggestions here that I agree with especially:

1) bells out of the stands

2) playing in tune

But a more aggressive sound can come from tight ensemble phrasing. You can actually play softer when articulations are exaggerated and the section sound is more compact.

Quite often, when a director as for more aggressive sound, the brass tend to lean toward a loud, often blary sound. While that might work for outdoor pep band playing, it ruins the sound of a jazz ensemble.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
In addition to the above, keep in mind that good ensemble intonation has a direct effect on balance and carrying presence.


You beat me to it, that’s exactly what I was going to mention.

Also, IF part of the problem really is the players being timid, mention that if they are holding back for fear of fracking a note, THAT can make it more likely that they will. I have young students who do this, I have done it myself years ago.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group