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buying a new horn



 
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: buying a new horn Reply with quote

I'm going to be buying a new horn in the next month or so and I wanted to get an idea of what some of the guys in NYC are using these days that do similar work. I primarily need it to play lead trumpet in big bands and I play in a variety of horn bands that call tunes for it. My budget is in the $2500-4K range and I want to buy a NEW horn, not a new to me horn.

Thanks in advance.
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Pete
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some ideas: http://abel.hive.no/trompet/playerhorn/

Two questions:
1. what are you playing now?
2. Why do you want to change it?

Pete
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Frank Greene is on an Adams, I played one at Josh Landress' shop last year.
Was an A5, basically a Benge copy but a great horn...

Tony Kadleck was on a Stomvi for a while but still uses a Yamaha 6335 last I heard.

Greg Gisbert might still be on a Conn, not sure.

I've also heard great things about Powell trumpets, DelQuadro horns, and Tony Scodwell's instruments.

Not sure if John Duda is still making Calicchios but they are definitely a must try.
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Calicchio Chuck Mangione for a lot of years and then moved to a mid 50's Couesnon but it wasn't really appropriate for getting over a big band or the horn band stuff I do.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. I want a sports car. Should I purchase a Corvette, a Jaguar, a Porsche, an Audi, a ….

Everything horn has a different characteristic for tone, intonation and response. It sounds like what you need to do is go to a shop with a diverse inventory and try a few, both new and used.

You may find you go home with the girl you brought to the dance, as I have on many occasions when the gear acquisition disease rears its ugly head.
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jhahntpt
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the Yamaha bandwagon after years of playing Bach horns. My 9335NY is very easy to play, is easy on the intonation, and sounds great. I can't imagine moving away from it!
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I full planned to do that. But where I decide to go will be reliant on a compilation of the many recommendations I receive. Since traveling to a brass pro shop takes a serious drive committment, I want to narrow my search to a horn that fits my needs before just going to a place that would be a waste of time.


iiipopes wrote:
Hmm. I want a sports car. Should I purchase a Corvette, a Jaguar, a Porsche, an Audi, a ….

Everything horn has a different characteristic for tone, intonation and response. It sounds like what you need to do is go to a shop with a diverse inventory and try a few, both new and used.

You may find you go home with the girl you brought to the dance, as I have on many occasions when the gear acquisition disease rears its ugly head.

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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trane1959 wrote:
Yes. I full planned to do that. But where I decide to go will be reliant on a compilation of the many recommendations I receive. Since traveling to a brass pro shop takes a serious drive committment, I want to narrow my search to a horn that fits my needs before just going to a place that would be a waste of time.

OK. Let me get this straight: you are planning on spending $2 to 4 k on a horn, but you don't want to spend a couple of hundred on driving costs and a few days to see what you really like for a horn that you are going to play, presumably, for years? Finding out what doesn't work for you is as important as what does. I suggest you reexamine your priorities in your search for a new horn.
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Ortrouvere
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:34 am    Post subject: New horn Reply with quote

Check out the Austin Custome Brass website. They have stores in Boston and Kansas city. Many models to consider: Adams, Bach, Jon Packer,etc. And Tren Austin has many vids on the website playing the horns. Worth a look.
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete wrote:
Here are some ideas: http://abel.hive.no/trompet/playerhorn/

Two questions:
1. what are you playing now?
2. Why do you want to change it?

Pete


what an awesome resource I didn't know about. Thank you!!!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi trane1959

Considering you are are looking for a trumpet for lead work, my advice would be to copy and post your opening post and put it in the horns forum rather than the cornet/flugelhorn forum, unless I'm misunderstanding.

Without appearing to criticize your sentence structure or grammar, I found it hard to interpret this sentence.

I primarily need it to play lead trumpet in big bands and I play in a variety of horn bands that call tunes for it.

I presume that you are looking for a trumpet and not a flugel since you primarily 'need it to play lead trumpet in big bands', but what do you mean by playing in a variety of horn bands that call tunes for it?

I'm not being pedantic, just trying to clarify whether you have mistakenly posted in the cornet/flugel horn forum, as your last part about playing in a variety of horn bands that call tunes for it, could refer to additionally needing a flugel.

Could you please clarify that you are looking for a trumpet, and it is up to you, but if so, I'd re-post in the horns forum to attract a wider audience.

Good luck with your search.

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
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trane1959
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. I need a new flugelhorn. I play lead trumpet in big bands in the ny area. You don’t play lead flugelhorn in big bands but the lead trumpet player will play flugelhorn in big bands.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trane1959 wrote:
No. I need a new flugelhorn. I play lead trumpet in big bands in the ny area. You don’t play lead flugelhorn in big bands but the lead trumpet player will play flugelhorn in big bands.


Hi trane1959

Thanks very much for the clarification. I've done big band work when all four of us on trumpet switched to flugel for some numbers, and big band work when no one at all brought a flugel. Maybe it is different where I come from, but saying that you are playing lead trumpet in a big band, doesn't automatically suggest to me that you therefore need and are looking for a flugel.

Other posters seem to be suggesting trumpet as well, so I don't appear to have been the only confused one. Never mind anyway.

I'm also slightly confused about the issue of getting over a big band. I'm likely to play flugel for something like Misty or Here's That Rainy Day. Presumably you play more Maynard style charts or things along the lines of Chuck Mangione Feels So Good.

Maybe I'm feeling pedantic or something this morning, or just being unusually thick today, but I'm struggling to work out what sort of playing you do on flugel, sorry.

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Other posters seem to be suggesting trumpet as well, so I don't appear to have been the only confused one. Never mind anyway.
As per my initial reply, I obviously misunderstood too...

Louise Finch wrote:
I'm also slightly confused about the issue of getting over a big band.
Personally speaking, even when amplified some flugels I owned sounded very dull.

Examples include the Kanstul copper bell 1525, Bach 183, and Courtois 154

For me, Couesnon and Yamaha both provide the warmth and resonance that might be in question here.

As for brand new? If I were in the market the top two on my list would be Adams and Hub van Laar.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
trane1959 wrote:
Yes. I full planned to do that. But where I decide to go will be reliant on a compilation of the many recommendations I receive. Since traveling to a brass pro shop takes a serious drive committment, I want to narrow my search to a horn that fits my needs before just going to a place that would be a waste of time.


OK. Let me get this straight: you are planning on spending $2 to 4 k on a horn, but you don't want to spend a couple of hundred on driving costs and a few days to see what you really like for a horn that you are going to play, presumably, for years? Finding out what doesn't work for you is as important as what does. I suggest you reexamine your priorities in your search for a new horn.


I don’t think that’s what he was saying at all, he didn’t say he was unwilling to invest the time and money on a trip, he said he was hoping to increase the odds that where he goes has what he is looking for.

Brad
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're looking for a flugelhorn that projects what you want is an Adams with the optional nickel silver bell flare. That option gives the horn a bit of an edge compared to horns without it.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamahaguy wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Other posters seem to be suggesting trumpet as well, so I don't appear to have been the only confused one. Never mind anyway.
As per my initial reply, I obviously misunderstood too...

Louise Finch wrote:
I'm also slightly confused about the issue of getting over a big band.
Personally speaking, even when amplified some flugels I owned sounded very dull.

Examples include the Kanstul copper bell 1525, Bach 183, and Courtois 154

Hi

It goes to show that we are all different, as I have a Bach 183, and I don't find it remotely dull sounding.

I'm using a stock Bach 3CFL flugel mouthpiece, and I find that this combination gives me a big characteristic flugel sound.

All the best

Lou


For me, Couesnon and Yamaha both provide the warmth and resonance that might be in question here.

As for brand new? If I were in the market the top two on my list would be Adams and Hub van Laar.

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

top of my Flugel list would also be Adams and Van Laar..

I've been on a bit of a Flugel safari over the last couple years, and to me none of the others (new) are in the same league.
IMO the Flugel sound, of players, is more diverse than the trumpet. I suspect you'd be better served if you went out and tried a bunch.
How much playing are you doing on it? If you're only picking it up on rare occassions in the Big Band then maybe a Yamaha 631G is what you're after - play great, easy to switch to, and rather inexpensive.
If you're recording and doing more solo work, then maybe look at various Adams setups.

I'm playing a Bach 183 now. Partly because it completes my collection of Bachs, but I found I prefered the sound I got in recording (close mic'ed) over a Yamaha.. I don't play Flugel a ton, had some work done on my 183, so it does the job I need it to do and "feels" comfortable in my hands - for the occassional few measures in a Big Band and solo work.
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