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Student FLUGEL



 
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konitzlee
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Student FLUGEL Reply with quote

Howdy fellow trumpeters and flugelhornists!!

I am an amateur trumpet player, I own a used STRADIVARIUS REVERSE LR180S 37 ML which is a great horn, it plays always on tune and I can't complain about it.

For the past 10 years I have been dreaming about getting a flugelhorn. Although I've browsed all the possibilities, basically I've given up on getting a serious instrument: a good pro one is too expensive: Van Laars, Adams, Conn, Kunstel etc etc, make extremely beautiful flugs; in a way though it makes no sense for an amateur like me to get an extremely beautiful instrument and do installments with a bank when I'm not a pro.

Would you be so kind to advise me then as to which student instrument I could buy? I have my eyes set on the bach FH600.

What's your take on this? Would you have student flugs to suggest?
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A used Yamaha 631/731 shouldn't be prohibitively expensive - and they hold their value, so if you ever needed the cash back out of it you could sell it for pretty much what you paid for it.
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Student FLUGEL Reply with quote

konitzlee wrote:
in a way though it makes no sense for an amateur like me to get an extremely beautiful instrument and do installments with a bank when I'm not a pro.


I don't think that being a non-pro has anything to do with buying a nice horn. A really nice horn that brings you some joy just by opening the case will do just that... make you want to open the case and play!!
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The user name may rather indicate a propensity towards a well-played Selmer Mark VI.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO it's important to get a good Flugel.. the bad ones are worse than bad trumpets. You could get by with a student or step-up trumpet but lower level Flugels are just plain hideous.

look for a Yamaha 631G, or 731... I aactually have one for sale right now.. less than 2K

or if you don't want to spend that much.. Go to Austin Brass and get an ACB Flugel.. new, chinese made but prepped and tweeked by Trent.. you won't do better for the price.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Student FLUGEL Reply with quote

konitzlee wrote:
Would you be so kind to advise me then as to which student instrument I could buy? I have my eyes set on the bach FH600.

What's your take on this? Would you have student flugs to suggest?

There are pros/cons to getting a lesser-priced horn. But assuming this is the direction you want to go, then I think there are a number of lower-prices flugelhorns you could consider.

Above $1000, you're looking at Bach FH600, Carol Brass, Jupiter 846R or 1100R, and others. Below $1000 includes Trent Austin's ACB, Dillon Music's Flugelhorn, Allora Flugelhorn from WWBW and Musicians Friend, and others. If you want to include used horns, there are a lot of used Yamaha 631G and Getzen Eterna flugelhorns out there.

Do you know what you like in a flugelhorn (big bell vs small bell, larger bore vs smaller bore, top sprung vs bottom sprung valves, etc). Do you have an opportunity to test out of few horns? That might help you figure out what horn you like.

Mike
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a couple of Chinese cheapie stencilhorns and thought they were both fine. They're the ones you see on eBay around $285 - $300. I sold one just because I didn't need two. Both had buttery, fast valves. I think you could spend a lot more and not get a better sounding horn.

The first one was done with one labeled Vento, using a Denis Wick 4FL mouthpiece. There are a few notes where the intonation could be better which I attribute to the less than ideal monitoring rather than any failing of the horn.

The second one is labeled Barrington, essentially the same horn. They both played the same. On the Barrington I'm using the nondescript mouthpiece that came with it. Doesn't sound as lush as with the Denis Wick mp but it isn't terrible.


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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best cheap flugel I have try ($400-600) is the Getzen Capri flugel, in tune with great valves , smooth sound and 1st valve trigger.
Just check the ebay regularly and you will find one for sure.

Regards
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=111013&s=PRICE-DROPPED-ON-COUESNON-FLUGELHORN

Here you go: $900 for the iconic quintesential flugelhorn. I have a $3000 Flip Oaks and picked up a Quesnon for about $800 and that's the one I love and play.
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oldblow
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Kennedy is not wrong, and is telling you some good stuff. But I would like to add that you can have a Couesnon stencil, the Elkhart, sold in the US a couple or four decades ago, and get a good horn. I have an older one with the French taper pipe, and a newer one with the large Morse taper pipe, and both fit in with much more expensive flugels when I play in ensemble. You do have to pay attention to intonation on the notes below C below the staff, but a little pull on the slides plus some lip can make those notes workable.

The instrument I am talking about is not the Bach Elkhart that is currently slanted toward the European market.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a buddy who plays the jazz chair in a lot of big bands and prefers to solo on flugelhorn. A few years ago he embarked on a flugelhorn safari and played every flugel, new or used, that he could get his hands on.

Eventually he bought an expensive horn from a high-end company, completely hand-built but I would say one step below "boutique."

He ended up selling that horn and now plays a Dillon Music "Dillon Flugelhorn" with a rose-brass bell. It's a Chinese horn that Dillon makes sure is put together correctly. It's a Chinese copy of a Yamaha 631 flugelhorn. Dillon lists it at $475, but shows it as currently out of stock.

The guy I play with is almost completely happy with his horn. The third-slide trigger mount broke off, but since he never used the trigger he doesn't really care (honestly, that would matter to me). His big complaint is that the main spit-valve outlet isn't on the front curve, it's on the straight bottom tube which makes it hard to drain quickly. He recently tried out a Yamaha 631g and concluded that his horn was completely identical, played the same, but was a lot cheaper. He's a happy camper.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here. Don't go for crap but there are good used options out there. As I said in another thread I prefer a rather compact flugel sound so my vote would be for a smaller flugel like the Yamahas. My horn is an ebay buy (Kühnl & Hoyer model 15, a Couesnon-ish horn but not quite). Perfect round sound but still fits in big bands and rock settings. As the brand is less known but very well respected over here in good ol' Germany you may get a cheap one. Just look for it, I recently saw one for 290 Euro.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Student FLUGEL Reply with quote

mrhappy wrote:
konitzlee wrote:
in a way though it makes no sense for an amateur like me to get an extremely beautiful instrument and do installments with a bank when I'm not a pro.


I don't think that being a non-pro has anything to do with buying a nice horn. A really nice horn that brings you some joy just by opening the case will do just that... make you want to open the case and play!!


I agree that playing without compensation (and there are some FINE players who that for various reasons, and some not so fine players who do get paid!) doesn’t necessarily mean you should not purchase a good instrument. But some people just don’t want to invest a lot in a flugel if it’s not a primary horn. I recently went “middle of the road” on a Manchester flugel (around 1k) from Trent Austin, because even though I do get paid for my gigs I just don’t use a flugel all the time. Should I buy a top notch flugelhorn? Probably, but I have not. Yet.😉

It’s all subjective, we all have priorities with our disposable income.

Brad
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pcctpt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the ACB flugelhorn from Austin Custom Brass.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shop, Shop, Shop. Audition, audition, audition.

Flugels are like little girls with little curls (to adapt the nursery rhyme.) When you find a good one, it is very good. When you encounter a bad one, it is really bad. I got lucky. It only took me a couple of years of serious looking and auditioning to find my Couesnon flugel. And with the two matching Couesnon mouthpieces I have for it, one for section an one for solo, I am set for life. Overall, with price of horn, shipping, maintenance, mouthpieces, other accessories, I have less than $1K invested for that inimitable, smokey, piquant tone that makes Couesnon (at least the older ones) the standard by which all other flugels are compared, setting aside the current damn fad of trying to get as dark a tone as possible at the expense of the true character of the instrument and sacrificing intonation along the way.

All of the makes and models listed in this thread, and I will add the step up Jupiter to the list, are good to great horns for the money. But that does not mean any particular example of a horn will match the OP"s playing style, tonal concept, livable intonation quirks, etc.

Shop, shop, shop. Audition, Audition, Audition.
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