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Horn info please



 
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GotNoChops
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Location: Atlanta, Ga. USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Horn info please Reply with quote

Hello All,

I am a returning student from once upon a time...

I played trumpet from about 1972 until 1982 as I came up in school. I recently pulled my trumpets out to see how they were fairing.
My old Bb Stradivarius is in rough shape. But my C Strad is still beautiful to behold. I also have a TR200 Bb. Most of the slides still slide and the valves go up and down just fine. Although there is some hiss on the 3rd valve of the Strad Bb. The plan is to have them cleaned aligned etc., and continue to use them.

I have looked on bachbrass and bachloyalist for information on my horns specs but I wonder if someone here can help tell me about the specifics I cannot decipher.

In about 1976 I got my new Bb Stradivarius in San Antonio Texas.
Mr English was the director at Ed White Middle and I made the Concert Band that year.
bell stamp 43
lead pipe stamp none
2nd valve stamp ML and
serial number 1245xx
It is silver.
I am not sure if there is model number associated with it. I do not know the lead pipe size. And I do not know what ML stands for. There may be other details someone can lend light to. Please. And, Thank you.

.
.
I graduated High school and got my C trumpet in 1981.
My private teacher was really miffed when i showed it to him. My parents had not consulted him on the purchase. Sorry, Mr Wathall. I would guess they bought it through the local Attina's Music store.
Bell stamp 229
lead pipe stamp 25A
2nd valve stamp CL,
and serial number 1981xx
Silver
This has a saddle first valve and ring third valve.
Again the details elude me. Any light that can be shed such as is this a 190, 180 or other? what does the CL stand for?

Just general comments about the config of the two are appreciated. From reading several threads here I think the 43 bell on the Bb is less desirable due to it is thinner. From what i remember a darker tone might have been helpful, oh well. I'm not selling either of these. They represent the best times of my life. I'm just looking for information.

Thank you

Still, GotNoChops
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Bach Stradivarius Bflat 43 ML
Bach Stradivarius C 229/25A CL
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ohnecael
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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
Posts: 68
Location: Fort Wayne IN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the ML and CL they mean "Medium Large" which is the size of the bore which the measurments that correspond are around .45'' to .48'' I've heard and CL meaning C trumpet Large bore which I cannot for the life of me find out what specific horn you have on the BachLoyalist site.

I think you have a 180 C trumpet but im not 100% sure. Two very solid horns you have though. Take good care of them again once they are back in plating postition becuase they are treasures of their own.

Kindest Regards and hope this helps!
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a 43 ML since 1992. I like it much better than any Bach 37 I have played because it is far more open. So to me, a Bach 43 is desirable.

Generally the numbers on the bells refer to the bell I.e. model number. For Bb this would e.g. be 25, 37, 38, 43, 72 and for C e.g. 229 or 239. other parameters are the type of leadpipe etc.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bell number is only part of the model number. The other part is 180 or 190. Based on information I found here the OP’s horns are both 180 since they were made before 2010. So they would be a 180/37 and a 180/229.
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mafields627
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Joined: 09 Nov 2001
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Location: AL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 25A leadpipe is named after Bernard Adelstein, who played with the Cleveland orchestra. It's a little bit longer than the ubiquitous H (Herseth) pipe, which is said to aide in stability and intonation. My teacher used the 229/25A combination and got a HUGE sound out of it.
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
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Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Horn info please Reply with quote

GotNoChops wrote:
Hello All,

I am a returning student from once upon a time...

I played trumpet from about 1972 until 1982 as I came up in school. I recently pulled my trumpets out to see how they were fairing.
My old Bb Stradivarius is in rough shape. But my C Strad is still beautiful to behold. I also have a TR200 Bb. Most of the slides still slide and the valves go up and down just fine. Although there is some hiss on the 3rd valve of the Strad Bb. The plan is to have them cleaned aligned etc., and continue to use them.

I have looked on bachbrass and bachloyalist for information on my horns specs but I wonder if someone here can help tell me about the specifics I cannot decipher.

In about 1976 I got my new Bb Stradivarius in San Antonio Texas.
Mr English was the director at Ed White Middle and I made the Concert Band that year.
bell stamp 43
lead pipe stamp none
2nd valve stamp ML and
serial number 1245xx
It is silver.
I am not sure if there is model number associated with it. I do not know the lead pipe size. And I do not know what ML stands for. There may be other details someone can lend light to. Please. And, Thank you.

This Bb trumpet has a regular weight bell with with the 43 flare. ML (.459) bore. Regular 25 pipe.


I graduated High school and got my C trumpet in 1981.
My private teacher was really miffed when i showed it to him. My parents had not consulted him on the purchase. Sorry, Mr Wathall. I would guess they bought it through the local Attina's Music store.
Bell stamp 229
lead pipe stamp 25A
2nd valve stamp CL,
and serial number 1981xx
Silver
This has a saddle first valve and ring third valve.
Again the details elude me. Any light that can be shed such as is this a 190, 180 or other? what does the CL stand for?


This C trumpet has a regular weight bell with with the 229 flare. L (.462) bore. 25A pipe.

Just general comments about the config of the two are appreciated. From reading several threads here I think the 43 bell on the Bb is less desirable due to it is thinner. From what i remember a darker tone might have been helpful, oh well. I'm not selling either of these. They represent the best times of my life. I'm just looking for information.

Unless there's a star on the bell, there is no reason to believe this bell is thinner than Bach's regular weight bell. If it does have a star, it indicates a thinner bell, neither less or more desirable. Normal Bach trumpets from the Mount Vernon era had thinner bells than the current era. Also, unmarked bells from the Mt Vernon era could have been 43 bells or 37 bells.

Thank you

Still, GotNoChops
[/b]
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, everything that Jerry said. The Models are technically the 180 for the Bb and the C180 for the C.

As he said the 43 bell is not necessarily thinner than a 37, it's just a different bell. The 37 is certainly more common in HS and college band rooms around the country, but the 43 a great bell. Vincent Bach himself thought it was probably the ideal all-around bell he produced (I don't remember where I read that) with a bit more sparkle and projection than the 37. Personally, I generally prefer it to the 37 - which I usually find duller - at least in my hands.

https://www.bachloyalist.com/bach-trumpets-bells/
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mm55
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bb model number is 180S (S for silver plate), but usually the bore size "ML" and bell model number "43" would be appended; for instance 180S-ML-43. If the leadpipe is not marked with a model number, that usually means it's a model 25 leadpipe.
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GotNoChops
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Location: Atlanta, Ga. USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I want to thank you all very much for looking up and sharing your knowledge on this post.
Every one of you who have contributed are very much appreciated.

THank You, Ohnecael, Brassnose, LittleRusty, mafields627, Jerry, Crazy Finn, and mm55.

I am in the Atlanta area and plan to take these over to Rich Itas' Brass Workshop North of town for a bath and cleaning. The Bb will need lots of un-dinging as well.

Yall came through with flying colors and I am very glad I came here with my questions.

Still, GotNoChops
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Bach Stradivarius Bflat 43 ML
Bach Stradivarius C 229/25A CL
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 5895
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GotNoChops wrote:
First I want to thank you all very much for looking up and sharing your knowledge on this post.
Every one of you who have contributed are very much appreciated.

THank You, Ohnecael, Brassnose, LittleRusty, mafields627, Jerry, Crazy Finn, and mm55.

I am in the Atlanta area and plan to take these over to Rich Itas' Brass Workshop North of town for a bath and cleaning. The Bb will need lots of un-dinging as well.

Yall came through with flying colors and I am very glad I came here with my questions.

Still, GotNoChops


Now THIS is how to get started on TH, or any forum!

Good manners seem to be increasingly short supply in the 21st century.

Brad
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 2503

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRttksjGho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SjmdZ0jGVo

Played on a Bach 43 by master studio musician Warren Leuning RIP. Gary Grant aslo plays a Bach 43. Google his name for an education.
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