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3rd valve slide stop rod


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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem with my Martin Committee and thought a Getzen plastic "slide retainer" would be the perfect solution. Alas, the valve slides on the Committee are closer together than the Getzen and it didn't fit. I ended up using a heavy-duty black twisty-tie from the cabling of some electronic device.
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as some folks like to keep to the original design, a 3rd slide stop is practical and in some instances an enhancement.

For example, Bach C trumpets in recent times include a pin style stop screw. The added mass to the third slide provides stability (or slots) we find benficial. We've gone so far as to make a weighted stop screw for those that desire more slots. Positive resistance incrementally has it's advantages.

I'm also aware of players removing the 3rd stop nuts from their Bach Bb trumpets to open up the blow.

So you see, location and quantity of mass can have an impact.

I hope this is helpful.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nieuwguyski wrote:
I had the same problem with my Martin Committee and thought a Getzen plastic "slide retainer" would be the perfect solution. Alas, the valve slides on the Committee are closer together than the Getzen and it didn't fit. I ended up using a heavy-duty black twisty-tie from the cabling of some electronic device.

Why did you use anything? My impression, and experience, is that the Committee was made so that one doesn't need to compensate with extending the third valve slide.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my Committee, as did most, had an adjustable third-slide ring, suggesting that Martin didn't design the horn with no adjustment in mind (or, admittedly, they put the ring on because that's what "professional" trumpets had at the time).

But my Committee had the ring, and I used it, and the third-valve slide was so loose that the slide would fall off if not retained.

<rant>Martin didn't design the Committee to be the niche horn we think of it now. The design was meant to compete with other trumpets, sell as many units as possible, and make a profit. Martin's early marketing for the Committee includes endorsers like "M. Thomas Cousins, of the National Symphony Orchestra"; "Dana Garrett, formerly cornet soloist of the Sousa Band - now first trumpet, Capitol Theatre, Washington, D.C."; "Rafael Mendez, Hollywood artist"; "Jimmy Neilson, Band Director and Instrumental Instructor, Oklahoma City University - an outstanding trumpet and cornet artist"; and "Renold Schilke, one of the most highly skilled artists in America, first trumpet with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra."

Whether any of those players actually used a Committee or not doesn't matter. My point is Martin marketed the Committee as an all-around professional trumpet, and an adjustable third slide would have been standard at the time.</rant>

I guess my Committee must be a bad example. It is from the wrong period (late '50s) and is the wrong model (it's a Deluxe, with the nickel-silver slides), but I think it's a nice all-around trumpet that I've used in big band, in small-group jazz, in church, in concert band, and in pit orchestras. And I used the third-slide ring to adjust intonation in all those groups.
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guy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: 3rd valve slide stop rod Reply with quote

No one actually amswered the original question...
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: 3rd valve slide stop rod Reply with quote

guy wrote:
No one actually amswered the original question...


At least 2 people answered his original question, including me.

Mike
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guy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, this reply was destined to a different web site all together...just got caried away reading about trumpets that I missed it all together
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guy wrote:
My bad, this reply was destined to a different web site all together...just got caried away reading about trumpets that I missed it all together

In your defense, the thread went on a few tangents about rubber bands and stuff.

Mike
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Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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guy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya...What I was really hoping for was the specs of those early Holton stop rods...and my brain took over my eyes and 2 typing fingers...sorry!
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, I find that stop rods do affect how a horn plays.

I have an old LA Benge 3X, I acquired used about a decade ago. It's from the mid to late 70's and plays great. When I got it, it only had one of the posts for the stop rod and was missing the other components. I thought about getting it fixed, then decided I didn't care at the time.

I went to work in a music shop about 3 years ago and got to know the techs very well. At some point, I had the techs order the requisite parts from Allied to complete my stop rod assembly. They arrived and he installed them on my Benge. My buddy noted that the design was a little less refined than the Bach one, as the stop rode is just threaded in place. Ah, the quirks of Benges...

Anyway, I figured I'd make due. After all, I was a little rusty after a bit of a break and I'd get used to things. Alas, sometimes the rod would turn a bit and then start to bind against the open post on the slide. This was a bit annoying, but usually a little adjustment would do the trick. Then, it happened in rehearsal and I wasn't getting it to fit correctly, so I just removed the whole rod and nuts. Suddenly, my Benge played much more freely again! I just thought it was me! I hadn't noticed it being more restrictive, but now that restrictiveness was definitely gone and the Benge magic was back.

I'm glad I had the proper parts installed and have them at my disposal, but for now, I make due with a bit of string.
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Ronnman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nieuwguyski wrote:
I had the same problem with my Martin Committee and thought a Getzen plastic "slide retainer" would be the perfect solution. Alas, the valve slides on the Committee are closer together than the Getzen and it didn't fit. I ended up using a heavy-duty black twisty-tie from the cabling of some electronic device.


I bought one of the slide stops off eBay to work on another horn, but that didn’t work out. To my surprise it fit my Martin Committee. It was listed as fitting Bach USA Trumpet 3rd Slide Plastic Stop, 1530, TR300 Models.
Ron


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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
Interestingly, I find that stop rods do affect how a horn plays.

I have an old LA Benge 3X, I acquired used about a decade ago. It's from the mid to late 70's and plays great. When I got it, it only had one of the posts for the stop rod and was missing the other components. I thought about getting it fixed, then decided I didn't care at the time.

I went to work in a music shop about 3 years ago and got to know the techs very well. At some point, I had the techs order the requisite parts from Allied to complete my stop rod assembly. They arrived and he installed them on my Benge. My buddy noted that the design was a little less refined than the Bach one, as the stop rode is just threaded in place. Ah, the quirks of Benges...

Anyway, I figured I'd make due. After all, I was a little rusty after a bit of a break and I'd get used to things. Alas, sometimes the rod would turn a bit and then start to bind against the open post on the slide. This was a bit annoying, but usually a little adjustment would do the trick. Then, it happened in rehearsal and I wasn't getting it to fit correctly, so I just removed the whole rod and nuts. Suddenly, my Benge played much more freely again! I just thought it was me! I hadn't noticed it being more restrictive, but now that restrictiveness was definitely gone and the Benge magic was back.

I'm glad I had the proper parts installed and have them at my disposal, but for now, I make due with a bit of string.


Somewhat similar experience: I (stupidly!) had heavy rings put on a Schilke, the horn played MUCH differently afterwards, it felt very stuffy.
I don’t know for sure if it was the heavy ring on the third slide, or just the bad idea of putting heavy parts on a light horn, but it was definitely a change for the worse.

Brad
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PMonteiro
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently made a stop rod for my Accord with four nuts, a machine screw, and solder. Works pretty well.


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