Buying a Yamaha 631...trigger or no trigger?

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

When I buy a instrument, always think about the resale valve. Buy one with the trigger if possible. If not add on later. To install a thumb hook and fixed ring installed on my trumpet. Over 100.00 dollars.
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King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e4 cornet mouthpiece

[adagiotrumpet]

I found that adding a trigger to my Yamaha 631 was a great improvement, well worth the expense.

[JoeLoeffler]

Always get the trigger on a flugelhorn. Get on on the first slide too, if that is an option on the instrument of your choice.

You can’t fight the accoustical realities. Our instruments are an intonation compromise to get 7 chromatic pitches from three valves. Some people will say that mouthpiece choice will fix the inherent issues (see that Adams thread...) or that they just play with the third slide pulled out some (well, what if you need to play an Ab -to say nothing about playing a G# in the key of AMaj). I suppose that many people do not play in situations where intonation is crucial enough or play material technical enough that will be affected by the embiuchure needing to bend things around.

Now... I do view these matters from an orchestral point-of-view. That being said, I have heard a lot of great jazz groups that play with excellent intonation until the flugelhorns come out for that ballad...

[ThatDude]

Ended up getting a Yamaha 635st at my price range, thanks everyone

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

So did the instrument include the trigger? How does it sound?
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King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e4 cornet mouthpiece

[ThatDude]

Waiting for it in the mail. Yeah, trigger comes standard. It’s supposed to be a little darker than the 631, we’ll see.

[ThatDude]

So for anyone who might find this thread in the future and finds themselves in a similar situation:


I got a Yamaha 635 which was their step up from the 631/731 and comes default with with the trigger for $800.

I cannot say enough good about this horn. Sounds and plays exactly how I want with a simple $39 Yamaha 16F4. The sound is dark yet clear and the range and response are increadible. It’s a horn you don’t have to think about ,
Just pick up and play.
Im very glad I spent the extra $200.

Edit: 16F4, not 16E4

[delano]

Congratulations with your 635T, good choice. BTW it's not their step up from the 631/731 but a complete different horn with a different concept. The 16E is a cornet mp, you will have the 16F.

[scottfsmith]

Good deal, unless it was trashed thats a good price. I looked for two months for a Yamaha flugel with trigger and sub-$800 price but found nothing. $1200 more or less seems to be the going rate for one in average condition.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[gchun01]

635T is a great horn. I prefer it to the 631/731. Although I play mostly on a 6310z flugel now, there are some things I miss about the 635. For me, the 635 has a silkier and darker sound. Design-wise, the 635 has better valve cap threads than the 6310z, which are easy to cross thread.

I bought mine new for WWBWwhen they first came out ifor around $800.

[Harry Hilgers]

[Crazy Finn]

Flugels traditionally, and often have bottom sprung valves. It's very common.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[JoeLoeffler]

I am sorry, bottom springs will not make your valves hang up any more than springs at the top.

[Nos Mo King]

Harry,

Sent you a pm.

Best,

Russ
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Russ Chapman




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[Harry Hilgers]

[Harry Hilgers]

Here is a better example: The ol' broomstick balancing trick.

1. Bottom spring equivalent.
Hold on your (up-facing) hand the end of a long stick pointed upward.
Next quickly raise up your hand. The stick will want to rotate to fall down, unless you move your hand latterly to prevent this.

Your hand is equivalent to the bottom valve spring, except of course that the spring is in a fixed lateral position and thus can not move but straight up and down. Since the valve position is bounded (WITH A TOLERANCE) by the valve casing, a laterally valve motion, however so small, will occur.

2. Top spring equivalent.
When your hand would grab the stick on top and you quickly pull up, the stick will not want to rotate and thus negligent lateral valve motion.

It is a topic of comparing inherently unstable vs stable dynamical systems.

It is exactly this thought process that resulted in the front wheel drive car.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Harry

[cheiden]

I'm all my years I've seen no evidence that bottom-sprung flugels have more valve trouble than top-sprung instruments. All the instruments I have had trouble with hanging valves was with top-sprung trumpets though I've seen no evidence that the spring placement had anything to do with it.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[nieuwguyski]

Bottom-sprung valves are easier and cheaper to make, and thus lots of cheap instruments have them. And thus there are a lot of bad bottom-sprung valves out there. As well, lots of vintage instruments have bottom-sprung valves and as a result there are a lot of worn-out bottom-sprung valves out there.

If top-sprung valves were inherently superior, high-end manufacturers like Yamaha, Kanstul, Adams, Flip Oakes, B&S, Scodwell, and others, simply wouldn't offer "professional" flugels with bottom-sprung valves. In fact, looking at the Yamaha website, I don't think they currently offer a top-sprung-valve flugel (it looks like the 23xx-series "student" flugel is discontinued). Flip Oakes and Tony Scodwell are boutique horn-makers who charge premium prices for the instruments they sell, could certainly offer top-sprung-valve flugels if they wanted to (and adjust their prices accordingly)... and they choose not to.

And humble old me, a small fish in a smallish pond, prefers a bottom-sprung flugel over one with top-sprung valves. I prefer the more compact wrap, and the Bauernfeind bottom-sprung valves on my flugel work just fine.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[etc-etc]

[Harry Hilgers]