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C trumpet for small ensemble


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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Gabrieli, yes that is what I have been doing. I am currently in touch with one of the sellers of a Selmer but the Getzen looks attractive, too. Plus, living around Berlin, there are some local sources as well.

Also, glad to hear that there is no dislike of Selmer horns 👍 I play tested my teachers Bb and really liked it, hence the questions.

My French is pretty good and I knew about lebocoin, just never knew anyone who actually bought from there. Thanks for the suggestion.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never met a Selmer trumpet I disliked. I have a SIMA C which plays very well and would do great in a small ensemble. I also have a NYTC (New York Trumpet Co.) California C which is a super horn. Not made anymore but worth looking for.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for the Getzen. I had an ML bore, and it would be a great horn for small orchestra. Very easy to get around. They don't make these any more, since players nowadays prefer a big C trumpet. These play nothing like a Bach, which is a great C trumpet as well, but not as well suited to a small group like the Getzen.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, guys, the decisions have been made As of yesterday I have a mint (!) silverplated and perfectly functional Getzen Eterna C large bore in my stable. I eventually decided for the Getzen over the Selmers for two reasons. First, it is in perfect shape and second, while I love the sound of the Selmers, the sound of the Getzen is somewhat lighter and I think it will fit my needs much better. Thanks for all the useful advice I got on here!
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Bach 43GH & Klier USA 5C
Getzen Eterna C LB & Klier USA 5C
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Prisma Bb bass trumpet & Couesnon 3
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on your new C trumpet. I hope that you have many years of enjoyment with it.

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
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Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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giakara
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Ok, guys, the decisions have been made As of yesterday I have a mint (!) silverplated and perfectly functional Getzen Eterna C large bore in my stable. I eventually decided for the Getzen over the Selmers for two reasons. First, it is in perfect shape and second, while I love the sound of the Selmers, the sound of the Getzen is somewhat lighter and I think it will fit my needs much better. Thanks for all the useful advice I got on here!


Tell us how it works for you ?

Regards
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou and giakara, thanks. I am very happy with it. Great sound, awesome valves and in very good shape. The most noticeable blemishes are the fingerprints on the silver plate

The first thing I noticed is how light the horn is compared to my Bach 43 - of course this is a Bb horn but it also has heavy caps and a GH (heavy gold brass) bell. My wife (flute player) noticed the exact same thing when she picked up the Getzen for the first time.

As far as the playing is concerned, the sound is lighter than on the Bach. On the Bach I typically have a pretty dark sound, not so much on the Getzen. Still dark but more "sparkle" if that make sense. In that context I also noted that the 43 bell seems to open up earlier than the Getzen bell. The latter remains very elegant and narrow until its flare opens up so that may also affect the sound.

Blow-wise, there is a difference, the Getzen seems to require better control of the air stream than the Bach and I am still adjusting. Overall, however, the horn is very easy to play, I am really fascinated by the valves, and the intonation is excellent. I only need to adjust the low C# and D plus high E a little. That's pretty much it. Very happy overall!
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Bach 43GH & Klier USA 5C
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Lou and giakara, thanks. I am very happy with it. Great sound, awesome valves and in very good shape. The most noticeable blemishes are the fingerprints on the silver plate


Try applying lemon pledge. I spray it on a lint-free cloth, then wipe the horn down with it, being careful to not apply to slides or valves. This puts a thin protective sheen on the instrument. When fingerprints start reappearing, simply repeat the above. When you give the horn a bath, apply again once dried and polished. It is amazing how well this simple thing is for keeping your horn bright and beautiful.

AL
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Lou and giakara, thanks.

Hi Brassnose

You are very welcome.


I am very happy with it. Great sound, awesome valves and in very good shape.

I'm very pleased to here this.

The most noticeable blemishes are the fingerprints on the silver plate

The first thing I noticed is how light the horn is compared to my Bach 43 - of course this is a Bb horn but it also has heavy caps and a GH (heavy gold brass) bell. My wife (flute player) noticed the exact same thing when she picked up the Getzen for the first time.

Interesting. I haven't noticed my C trumpet being significantly lighter than my Bb.

As far as the playing is concerned, the sound is lighter than on the Bach. On the Bach I typically have a pretty dark sound, not so much on the Getzen. Still dark but more "sparkle" if that make sense. In that context I also noted that the 43 bell seems to open up earlier than the Getzen bell. The latter remains very elegant and narrow until its flare opens up so that may also affect the sound.

Blow-wise, there is a difference, the Getzen seems to require better control of the air stream than the Bach and I am still adjusting. Overall, however, the horn is very easy to play, I am really fascinated by the valves, and the intonation is excellent. I only need to adjust the low C# and D plus high E a little. That's pretty much it. Very happy overall!

Thanks very much for all the above. I am very pleased to hear that you are very happy overall with your new C.

Take care

Lou

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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allright, a little update. Had some time last night to finally play the C for quite a while. The high E I mentioned to be slightly out of tune is actually fine, just needed to get used to the horn some more. The low E is slightly sharp but I can lip it, so nothing serious.

One thing I noticed is that the horn seems to collect much more water than my Bb Bach. Wonder, if that has to do with the two Amados on the C vs. the regular lever spit valve on the Bach? Any experience on this?

On the weight again. I assign the quite significant difference to the fact that my Bach is a heavy-ish construction while the C is not. Will have to weigh them these days ...

Another thing I noted is that I seem to approach the notes on the C from the lower end, probably due to the fact that my brain and ears have not quite adjusted to the new tuning. This gets much better after a few minute when settling in "C mode".

I also like the idea of the lemon pledge, will try!
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Martin Schmidt eXcellence on the way!
Bach 43GH & Klier USA 5C
Getzen Eterna C LB & Klier USA 5C
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qcm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Allright, a little update. Had some time last night to finally play the C for quite a while. The high E I mentioned to be slightly out of tune is actually fine, just needed to get used to the horn some more. The low E is slightly sharp but I can lip it, so nothing serious.


Brassnose.

For the low E, try playing it with the third valve.

That will probably be enough to correct the pitch for you instead of lipping down the note.

-Dave
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ed Kennedy"]I second the idea of a medium bore C.
Schilke C6 or C7
Callet Sima https://www.callettrumpets.com/sima_c.htm
A Bach CML might also work for you.[quote]

I worked in the Schilke factory in the 1970's. We sent a large number of C6's to Germany and Austria. There may well be some used floating around in your "neck of the woods." As I recall the instruments had modified valve slide lengths which Ren referred to as "Vienna tuning." Those diminsions were later adopted for the entire Schilke C line of the time.



I
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: C trumpet Reply with quote

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
My first C was a Schilke C4 which I still have. I played that model up in a music store in Portland and ir was really comfortable. That was 1976 or so. I performed the Poulenc trio a number of times, and it seemed to fit well. Knowing that you won't just be doing small groups forever, you might consider a large bore and just learn to play efficiently. Bach, Yamaha and Schilke will always have a better resale value, than the other brands that you mentioned. I have also owned a C1L, S22C Yamaha 6445, and a Bach 229L/25A. Currently have a C3HD. I think intonation of the 4th partial seems to be better on the large bores.

The C4, C6 and C7 are identical except for the bells: M or C, ML or B and L or A. the letters were the factory designation referring to the bell mandrel when I worked there.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:

One thing I noticed is that the horn seems to collect much more water than my Bb Bach. Wonder, if that has to do with the two Amados on the C vs. the regular lever spit valve on the Bach? Any experience on this?!


Have your "repairature" open up the drain holes in the Amados one drill index size. (Don't do it yourself unless you really know what you are doing. It is easy to drill out the hole, slip and have an unwanted hole on the inside of the bow radius. OOOPS!)
PS We use Pledge in the shop regularly on lacquered instruments.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Allright, a little update. Had some time last night to finally play the C for quite a while. The high E I mentioned to be slightly out of tune is actually fine, just needed to get used to the horn some more. The low E is slightly sharp but I can lip it, so nothing serious.

One thing I noticed is that the horn seems to collect much more water than my Bb Bach. Wonder, if that has to do with the two Amados on the C vs. the regular lever spit valve on the Bach? Any experience on this?

On the weight again. I assign the quite significant difference to the fact that my Bach is a heavy-ish construction while the C is not. Will have to weigh them these days ...

Another thing I noted is that I seem to approach the notes on the C from the lower end, probably due to the fact that my brain and ears have not quite adjusted to the new tuning. This gets much better after a few minute when settling in "C mode".

Hi Brassnose

This also happened to me when I played C for the first time, definitely owing to Bb trumpet sounding a tone below the written note, whereas C trumpet obviously sounds as written. Like you say this gets better after a few minutes each time you play C, and after a short while, you'll find that it no longer happens at all, as you will be used to hearing the notes in concert pitch ahead of producing them.

All the best

Lou


I also like the idea of the lemon pledge, will try!

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late to the party. Sorry. But...I have a small bore Couesnon C with a stepped main tuning slide that I use for small ensembles / trumpet with organ / etc. The major difference I have experienced in switching back and forth from BBb is that the C takes more focused, higher velocity air (not necessarily volume of air) in order to help keep the embouchure properly slotting the notes.

OK. I know the Bach works for many people. But to me, the standard large bore Bach 229/239 is one of the most out-of-tune, hard to play trumpets God ever allowed man to invent. It was invented for one purpose, and one purpose only: to help Herseth overcome the dreadful acoustics and be heard in orchestra in Chicago hall. The rest of us, unless the Bach just absolutely suits the person, the ensemble, the venue, and the repertoire, would be better suited shopping around, as I did. My Queenie with its proprietary mouthpiece, works for me. Of course, YMMV.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of you might have missed it, but the OP stated that he made the decision and pulled the trigger on a Getzen.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, this is an interesting discussion. Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, I got the Getzen and it works fine. Will have to check if my repair man can drill the hole in the Amados a little larger and will also follow up the other suggestions.

Low E is actually better in tune with 12 than with 3 and I only have to use the first valve slide a little. In fact I am fascinated by how well in tune this thing plays (after previous tests with other horn and from what I read). The last C I test played was the Yamaha Bb/C converzible, 4435, I think. Not good. The Getzen is miles (well, kilometers) above it.

The other thing I really enjoy is the valves. They are really, really good. Ligher action than on my Bb Bach, even though my Bach is in great shape after a tuning and overhaul session in 2015.
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Martin Schmidt eXcellence on the way!
Bach 43GH & Klier USA 5C
Getzen Eterna C LB & Klier USA 5C
Kühnl & Hoyer Mod. 15 & GR 65FL
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose, don't use a drill on the amados before making sure they are clean, since it could be dirt that is blocking them. If you have a dental irrigator, try pressing the amado while squirting water from the irrigator into the hole. That will clean it out.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
Brassnose, don't use a drill on the amados before making sure they are clean, since it could be dirt that is blocking them. If you have a dental irrigator, try pressing the amado while squirting water from the irrigator into the hole. That will clean it out.

Agreed. You can always make a hole bigger, but you can't make it smaller after the fact. The interior chamfering is most important to allow the water to drain instead of bead. Before making the hole bigger, and even if the dental irrigator has resistance, have your tech scope the slide to make sure the interior of the drain hole is chamfered properly and does not have even the smallest burr or ridge which will impede water egress.
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