Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:53 pm Post subject: Help finding the correct notes for Jazz Solo
Hi, so for my Highschool jazz band I have a written solo for a song, but I would rather improvise it. The problem is I don't know what notes to use for the chord progressions. If Somebody could tell me what notes I can use for the different measures it would help so much.
Forget about that. Do you know the song? Can you play the melody? Keep that in your head and noodle around the tune. Play something you'd like to hear.
Practice scales and arpeggios for your development, but for a specific performance, without a strong background in technique and theory, stick with the tune and make it "purdy." Your grandmother will appreciate it. (and so will I).
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 355 Location: Maryland, USA
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: Improvised Solo
It's all rather complicated. The simplest advice I can offer is to play around with the notes in the transcribed solo that are given so as to create new phrases and melodies.
Cool Chuck M tune that is really fun to improvise over, but I'd have to say that based on your question you probably shouldn't look to improvise on this just yet as it seems that you've not had much improv experience? Having said that, it's a tough written out solo!! Hopefully you've a teacher that might be able to write out something for you.
This is one of those situations where soloing around the melody isn't going to help much, as the A section (Gmin) has a very understated melody, and the B section( G7) is that crazy that how do you solo around that???
The A section is actually not a bad progression to learn a few licks to, as the essence of it is Gmin D7 Gm (obviously with the ivm chord in there too, but beginners should start with I V7 I).
Probably the only thing I can offer in such a restricted setting is an idea over the D7 (the V7 chord). Play G harmonic min - the tonic chord (I'm not a massive one on learning lots of scales but the harmonic min I reckon is pretty important).
Now play the exact same notes, but starting on D. It won't start sounding like a lick just yet, but get used to the notes. Start playing around with those notes a bit, in particular starting on A or C and going down the scale works well. You'll start to hear how it wants to resolve to to the Gmin (tonic).
It's worth working on, and in a couple of popular keys, as you'll get plenty of chances to use it.
This may be totally useless information in that small text! (One on one it actually works well Being involved with a few schools I realise that time may be a serious factor too, and that's something that I've a bit of a frustration with. I don't like that lots of students such as yourself have to be under that sort of soloing pressure, but it happens a lot.
Good luck anyway, and feel to message me if you'd like to discuss anything further.
Rob _________________ Currently staff arranger for the band of the South Australia Police.
Berklee College of Music, Elder Conservatorium Adelaide, Australia.
For some great trumpet and band music please visit piglet music.com. Grab some free music there!
Last edited by robbo on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total
The tune is in (our) Gmin for this arrangement. It has a small venture to the major side half way through the progression, but the G7 - Ab is a cadence borrowed from the Phrygian mode, so it still has a hint on the minor side. (Sorry, you can ignore most of that as only the harmony geeks will be interested So in short it's in G min.
Rob _________________ Currently staff arranger for the band of the South Australia Police.
Berklee College of Music, Elder Conservatorium Adelaide, Australia.
For some great trumpet and band music please visit piglet music.com. Grab some free music there!
It seems that you are looking for a straightforward answer to your question. Unfortunately, there isn't one, or at least there isn't a good one. Literally any pitch can be used in any measure, provided the context (where it is coming from, where it is going to, its metrical position, etc.) and intent (how you play it in terms of phrasing, dynamics, inflection, etc.) justify it. My practical advice to you is to find a recording of the piece, if possible, that includes improvisation that you enjoy hearing, and try to copy it by ear. That will help you generate some material to play as you begin working on improvising. Know right from the start that this is a lifelong endeavor, that there are no shortcuts, and that you have to play a lot of stuff you don't like to eventually get to things that you do. Give yourself the freedom to sound "bad" and don't judge yourself harshly when your progress isn't as fast as you would like. The closest parallel I can think of at the moment is deciding you would like to write poetry in a foreign language you've heard a few times but haven't studied at all. Recognize that there are a lot of steps between where you are now and publishing an enduring classic. And just as we study the rules of grammar in a foreign language course, it would behoove you to investigate harmony and counterpoint as you embark on this journey.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2649 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:29 am Post subject:
Get back to basics as some people have mentioned. What I've told players in my band is play the beginning note of every phrase and any sustained note. Then work on notes in between staying within the key signature. You'll probably sound fine.
Listening to the following, I was bored quickly. Chord based improv does that to me. Doodling around on the chords can really lack forward movement. But hey, that's just me. Here Chuck Mangione doing the tune.
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Help finding the correct notes for Jazz Solo
ProgramCrazy wrote:
Hi, so for my Highschool jazz band I have a written solo for a song, but I would rather improvise it. The problem is I don't know what notes to use for the chord progressions. If Somebody could tell me what notes I can use for the different measures it would help so much.
Basically speaking, the tune is in your G minor (two flats). Remember that key signature (and it's scale, the B♭ major scale) throughout.
The only time you need to use any notes outside of that scale is on three of the chords:
1) on the D7 chords you can use an F# instead of F♮;
2) on the G7 chords you can use B♮ instead of B♭; and
3) on those A♭ chords you ought to use an A♭ instead of an A♮.
Rather than playing scale-driven lines, try making melodies that use the appropriate chord tones.
Writing out your own solos is a great way to learn the fundamentals of improvisation. I would encourage you to write several solos and try different melodic approaches.
You're already way ahead of many who want to learn because you took the time to ask questions. Keep up the good work! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9000 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:18 am Post subject:
ProgramCrazy wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
What does the key signature say for this passage?
There's an Eb and Bb
I don't mean to be condescending, but you don't even know your keys? Big problem. I'll offer this piece of advice anyway, because I don't see it above and it helps you avoid rambling, and playing with no goal.
Find the Tonic chords, that's your "home". Make your note choices lead, and resolve, to this.
After you've found the "Home/Tonic" chords, identify the chords leading up to the Tonic or the chord that preceeds "Home". Sometimes it leads up to the chord that just lie before the Tonic.
In Cminor, this would mean a C minpr-type chord as tonic I). G7 chord would be the chord that preceeds the I/Cmin. That is G7 to Cmin. These chords provide the cadences leading or resolving home. (V-I)
Why is this important? Because they all lead home and if your improvisation mirrors this, it gives your improvisation structure, goals and helps keep it from rambling.
The Abs are probably colour chords, not functional chords, and just play the notes in that chord (Ab Major Scale). Don't worry about its harmonic function, just the colour. The G is a common note between that chord and the other diatonic chords, giving them a tying effect. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
There is no adequate substitute for the instinctive ability to play intended pitches and intended relative pitches by ear. If you can do that proficiently you don't need to know anything about music theory, chords, etc. to be proficient at improvisation.
Improvisation is a language, the same in principle as spoken language. You learned to speak your native language quite well before you spent even a nanosecond studying books on grammar, sentence structure, etc. You improvise virtually every word you say. Learning to improvise proficiently on trumpet involves the same process you used to learn to speak your native language.
Don't believe me? Well, maybe you'll believe Marvin Stamm who says exactly the same thing. Here's the link:
By the way, in jazz improvisation there are no wrong notes, there are only wrong resolutions. I didn't originate that one either. It's a quote by Bill Evans. And here's what Miles Davis said about the subject of wrong notes: "There are no wrong notes in jazz; only notes in the wrong places" and "It's not the note you play that's the wrong note - it's the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong." _________________ HERMOKIWI
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2649 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
There is no adequate substitute for the instinctive ability to play intended pitches and intended relative pitches by ear. If you can do that proficiently you don't need to know anything about music theory, chords, etc. to be proficient at improvisation.
Improvisation is a language, the same in principle as spoken language. You learned to speak your native language quite well before you spent even a nanosecond studying books on grammar, sentence structure, etc. You improvise virtually every word you say. Learning to improvise proficiently on trumpet involves the same process you used to learn to speak your native language.
Don't believe me? Well, maybe you'll believe Marvin Stamm who says exactly the same thing. Here's the link:
By the way, in jazz improvisation there are no wrong notes, there are only wrong resolutions. I didn't originate that one either. It's a quote by Bill Evans. And here's what Miles Davis said about the subject of wrong notes: "There are no wrong notes in jazz; only notes in the wrong places" and "It's not the note you play that's the wrong note - it's the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong."
One of the best answers I've ever read. Where's the like button? _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:27 am Post subject:
Play along with the recording, over and over, until you come up with something that sounds like a good solo. Then do it some more. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3297 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Help finding the correct notes for Jazz Solo
ProgramCrazy wrote:
Hi, so for my Highschool jazz band I have a written solo for a song, but I would rather improvise it. ...
---------------------------------
A big concern is what the other sections/players are doing during your 'written' solo.
If everyone else is just 'hanging out' as often done in small jazz groups, then changing your solo might not be a problem, But if the other players have written parts that are supposed to blend/sync with your written solo - changing your part could lead to a big mess.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Help finding the correct notes for Jazz Solo
JayKosta wrote:
ProgramCrazy wrote:
Hi, so for my Highschool jazz band I have a written solo for a song, but I would rather improvise it. ...
---------------------------------
A big concern is what the other sections/players are doing during your 'written' solo.
If everyone else is just 'hanging out' as often done in small jazz groups, then changing your solo might not be a problem, But if the other players have written parts that are supposed to blend/sync with your written solo - changing your part could lead to a big mess.
Jay
And, not meant to discourage a young player from learning to improvise, but what are the chances that he will come up with something better than the written part? It depends on the circumstances here, if the OP is planning on playing this in a concert, maybe getting a handle on how to improvise should be done separately from this particular instance.
To the OP: there have been lots of good suggestions here, you just need to decide if you can get comfortable with improving before your band plays this publicly, if in fact you’re preparing to do that. Learning improvisation is definitely a good idea, only you and your band director will know when you’re ready to use it in a concert.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
What are the chances a band director who programs this piece in a world filled with better options will be able to A) tell the difference and B) be of any use in teaching this student to improvise? _________________ Nikola Tomić
https://nikolatomic.com/nikolas-musings/
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject:
NikolaTomic wrote:
What are the chances a band director who programs this piece in a world filled with better options will be able to A) tell the difference and B) be of any use in teaching this student to improvise?
Yikes, don’t hold back.
I strongly suspect that the director will certainly know the difference between what’s written and what a young, inexperienced student will come up with.
And, how exactly do you know that this kid’s director WON’T be helpful?? Seriously man, you don’t know that any more than I do, seems like a blanket indictment of band directors is really inappropriate, and probably inaccurate.
Just like trumpet players and any other profession or hobby, there are great band directors and terrible ones, and many who are between those two extremes.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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Being involved with a few schools I realise that time may be a serious factor too, and that's something that I've a bit of a frustration with. I don't like that lots of students such as yourself have to be under that sort of soloing pressure, but it happens a lot.
