• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Lead in Mouthpieces


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Namuhs55
Regular Member


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Salinas, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Lead in Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Came across this article regarding testing mouthpieces for lead. Thoughts?

https://www.ceh.org/campaigns/legal-action/current-work/lead-found-brass-mouthpieces-used-musical-instruments/?fbclid=IwAR0SC5XhUPVXWocQv6Fb7CPyBj8ruXNF2q__cgK5ckhiqPMcvEQAyT2UgRE

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we've advised customers, if you've worn through the plating on the rim of your mouthpiece and have exposed brass, it's time to replate or replace your mouthpiece. One more solution overlooked in this article are alternative screw rim materials like delrin and lexan.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their story fails to report on how they tested the mouthpieces, what percentage of lead the mouthpieces contained, or where the lead was found. For me, the article raises more questions than it answers.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many brass alloys contain a small amount of lead because it acts as a lubricant in the machining process. As Mr Becker pointed out it is not a problem unless there is exposed brass where your lips contact the mouthpiece. Replate or replace.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8331
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The impression I got from the article is that these were not old used and worn mouthpieces, but rather new purchased ones - ones that should not have issues with plating wear.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cjl
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They purposefully don’t tell you how they test. They just scream LEAD so everyone will panic and they can hopefully make a bunch of money with their lawsuits “for the people.”

Did you read their bios? Social worker, organizer, political ecologist???

One of the worst advances science has ever made is the ability to measure parts per billion.

People need to worry about the things that will kill them, like using your phone while driving, drugs, drinking to excess, etc.

Next they will find traces of Roundup in valve oil.

Sorry, I just don’t believe this is a real threat.

— Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lipshurt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 2641
Location: vista ca

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Free machining” brass alloy “360” is what most mouthpieces are made of. That alloy is 3 percent lead. A fair amount. If the test method scraped of a bit and then dissolved in acid it would show a lot of lead.

I had a friend who checks for lead contamination with some sort of sensor check a bare mouthpiece and it did not show brass. Brass sealed under sliver plate doesn’t show up either of course.

I work with 360 a lot with my bare hands sanding and buffing etc, and always have my blood work check for lead. Never shows up.

I stopped worrying about it
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, yes. Alarmists hard at work.

Knuckleheads.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3274
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sure 'warning sign' is when you notice a metallic taste from the mpc.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

California, of course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more alternative besides stainless steal mouthpieces is plastic screw rims. We offer Lucite and Delrin options for the rims of our Osmun Horm mouthpieces https://osmun.com/osmun-horn-mouthpieces/ So what's required is to digitize your trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn rim and thread the underpart. We can match any thread, Giardinelli, Bach or Warburton and you're good to go.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am struggling to find something polite to say about this sort of nonsense. Are we to believe that after millennia of lead-containing alloys used by humans without harm (including trumpeters for over 5 centuries - hey, how many of you have a raw brass horn, perhaps vintage with lead solder, that have in your hands all the time?), suddenly the laws of physics have been repealed (as one freshman congresswoman famously told TV cameras her "gutless" peers needed to step up and do a few years ago) and those lead atoms now have such an affinity for hemoglobin that they will separate out of the brass, like zinc in an acid bath, and jump into your body. (Anyone's vintage or Taylor solder joints fall apart because your hand sucked all that solder out?) Its ridiculous. Yes, some famous musicians probably died of lead poisoning (like Mozart), but it was from the pure lead seals on booze bottles that haven't been used in a century or two.!
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test.

Yes, they left a number of things out of the article. But they remembered to include the "donate" button.

There may be a real issue here, especially with raw brass. But this web site is more of a fundraising vehicle, not a source of knowledge.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adagiotrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
California, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how an entire state can be condemned over an incomplete report. I would never condemn the author's home state of Alabama for... any number of reasons. The fact of the matter is how these conclusions were drawn. Without carefully examining the research, we are in no position to either agree or disagree with the stated conclusions.

My guess is that these mouthpieces were scraped exposing the raw brass under the plating, which would show the presence of lead. If their conclusions are that the lead is leaching through the plating, then I would like to see proof of this.

Years ago, the lead was removed from solder used in plumbing, for health reasons. Plumbing fixtures such as faucets are still made from brass which I would assume still contain lead. The lead from the brass in these fixtures may or may not be leaching into the water that passes through them.

However, raw brass from an unplated mouthpiece or a mouthpiece with worn plating does post a risk to the end user, regardless of the state in which this report was written.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test.

Yes, they left a number of things out of the article. But they remembered to include the "donate" button.

There may be a real issue here, especially with raw brass. But this web site is more of a fundraising vehicle, not a source of knowledge.

Mike

Well stated.

I'm decidedly antipollution and generally sympathetic to those pointing out health risks, but the complete lack of data here makes this headline of little value.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
kalijah wrote:
California, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how an entire state can be condemned over an incomplete report. I would never condemn the author's home state of Alabama for... any number of reasons.


Except that this is just the latest piece of stupidity coming out of California.

His comment doesn't necessarily condemn every citizen, just our troublemakers.

But just in case you still think it isn't fair for someone from Alabama to make such a statement, let a native Californian say it: California, of course.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atom_anderson
Veteran Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 408
Location: Aurora, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if there is more lead in the lead mouthpieces. I just started playing more on a monette B4L mouthpiece and was surprised to find the L is short for lead! Should I be concerned?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9343
Location: Heart of Dixie

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! Send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly...
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
The impression I got from the article is that these were not old used and worn mouthpieces, but rather new purchased ones - ones that should not have issues with plating wear.


I doubt they just tested the surface of the mouthpieces. They would have cut into the mouthpieces and tested the brass itself.

I think this is a non-issue. Unless you gnaw on your mouthpiece every day, the minuscule amount of lead that is in (some) brass alloys isn't going to go leaping into your body. People handle bullets and fishing weights composed of pure lead every day. And only some of them are (slightly) retarded.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test. They just scream LEAD so everyone will panic and they can hopefully make a bunch of money with their lawsuits “for the people.”

Did you read their bios? Social worker, organizer, political ecologist???

One of the worst advances science has ever made is the ability to measure parts per billion.

People need to worry about the things that will kill them, like using your phone while driving, drugs, drinking to excess, etc.

Next they will find traces of Roundup in valve oil.

Sorry, I just don’t believe this is a real threat.

— Joe


This.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group