Mouthpiece for medium full to full lips

[Ronnie3435]

Hello, sorry if this topic was already discussed somewhere else, but I couldn’t find anything about it.
I have been playing trumpet for about six years, the last three being more serious. I’ve recently been on the hunt for a new mouthpiece, but I don’t have any physical stores in my area where I can sit down and try a few out. Right now I’m limited to searching the web and reading dimensions, which I have discovered to be inconsistent between manufacturers. Just like every other kid, I started on a 7c, and it worked really good for me. But as I grew, it became more and more difficult to use. My cousin recommended I switch to a 3c based on what she could tell about my facial structure, and I’ve been using it for a couple years now. I got a Bach 3c off the internet, because there are no local stores and hoped it would fit me well when it arrived. For the most part it helped. My overall range, low and high, improved and so did my sound quality and endurance. Over the past couple weeks however, I’ve noticed it becoming difficult to set my emboucher correctly, which has been leading to huge inconsistency in my playing. I’ve also noticed myself growing tired much more quickly while playing. At first I though it might be excessive pressure, so I have been some exercises to help that, but I’ve found almost no improvement even while using minimal pressure. I’ve started to think maybe I need to up the size of my mouthpiece a little, but I am unsure where to go. I really like the way my 3c plays and sounds for me, but the inconsistency I get with it has been frustrating to me. It’s seems like the diameter of the mouthpiece is just a hair narrow and it is not letting my lips set in their natural position, requiring me to adjust. I think this is where my inconsistency is coming from. My first instinct is to try a Bach 1 1/2c, but I think it may be too big of a jump for my developing emboucher. I’ve heard Bach makes a 3cw, for people with fuller lips, but I’ve also hear, and check with the kanstul comparator, that the dimensions are almost nothing like the 3c. I am curious if any of you would have any helpful information on helping me. If possible I would like to stick with something that plays and sounds like my Bach 3c, but have it be a little roomier for my lips (if that’s possible). Any help is much appreciated.
Sorry for spelling mistakes everywhere. I tried to peck this out on my phone.
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Hello

[O00Joe]

https://storkcustom.com/how-your-lips-dictate-your-mouthpiece-choice/

Here's a resource that addresses just that.
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1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68

[Ronnie3435]

Wow that was fast. Thank you
Edit: wow, according to the article, I’m using s mouthpiece about 1.0mm to small
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Hello

[Vin DiBona]

The Stock photos are a guideline, not the ultimate in accuracy.
You need to talk to Phyllis Stork or other manufactures and not get all your information from this and the other trumpet website.
I am a GR dealer and know for a fact there are players with "thick" lips who use small mouthpieces very effectively and those with "thin" lips who use very large mouthpieces successfully.
Talk to Stork. They make fine mouthpieces.
R. Tomasek

[dstdenis]

Hi Ronnie,

I followed a similar pattern in high school. I was fine with the 7c I started with, but as I grew up, I outgrew that mouthpiece and had to move to larger pieces. I ended up with inner diameter around 17.0 mm.

At one point I contacted Phyllis Stork for her advice. She was great. Her article, mentioned above, was very helpful. It doesn't determine an exact perfect fit, but it can get you in the ball park. For me, her advice was spot-on.

It's a "Goldilocks" problem. We need something big enough to get the vibrating surface and supporting structure within the rim inner diameter, but not so big that things like range, endurance and lip protrusion become a problem. So don't hesitate to try something bigger if you really need it, but don't go any bigger than is really necessary either. Good luck.
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Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Vin DiBona]

Keep in mind that diameter is only 1 aspect of a proper fit.
Rim, cup shape and volume, and alpha angle are all paramount in a proper fit.
The mouthpiece must also not only fit the player, it must work with the horn, too.
R. Tomasek

[Ed Kennedy]

Good advice so far. Phylis Stork really knows her stuff. If you don't have a teacher you might consider getting some skype lessons from one of our luminaries on TH. If you were doing fine on the 3C and then not, it may be that you have fallen into some bad habits that can be corrected. Here's one of my go-to videos when I need to straighten myself out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVREWJ4xfoI&list=PL976DE9A62F7DEA55

[Ronnie3435]

Thank you all for your help. I will definitely look into Stork I’ve heard good things about them.
As for why I want to switch, I haven’t noticed myself playing worse, but I have been playing pretty inconsistently. Some days I can play up to to ours and some days I’m toast in 30 minutes. I’m not exactly sure what’s happening, but it feels like I’m having trouble setting my lips consistently, which is causing the variation in playing.
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Hello

[brassmusician]

Sounds like you may be having issues adjusting to the rim of the 3C. The 3C is flatter and will have a higher alpha angle, which may not be allowing your lip to settle in and vibrate easily. It could be worth trying a Curry 3C. There is a bit more room at the top of the cup, which could help. At least you would not be changing diameter again.
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Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL

[zaferis]

[Irving]

You are assuming that your playing difficulties have to do with your choice of mouthpiece. This is most likely not the case. You will find this to be true if you start switching mouthpieces with no improvement. A good teacher would be my first step, although they are hard to find. Consider one of the chop docs that give skype lessons. They should be able to get you on the right track. Is your present mouthpiece comfortable? Rim comfort is important. Once you have a good match then you need to forget about mouthpieces and work on your technique. Looking for the magic mouthpiece is a waste of time and money.

[JayKosta]

Is this the correct time-line -
1) You have been using a Bach 3C successfully for several years - until just recently.
2) NOW, that same mpc doesn't seem to set consistently on your lips. And you believe that is causing some playing problems.

Also, does the diameter of the mpc generally feel too big/small on your lips?
Does slight mpc movement up/down/left/right make the rim feel more secure in ONE spot but worse in another?

Have you had any changes with your teeth? That could affect how the mpc feels.

Are you lips chapped or dry? Do you use any type of lip 'balm' - which one?
If not, I suggest trying a SIMPLE 'chap-stick' (no camphor) before going to sleep - just enough to slightly grease the lips and surrounding tissue.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Ronnie3435]

Jay, yes pretty much everything you said is correct. I think the root of my problem is that I can’t keep the red of my lips in the mouthpiece. If I get the top lip positioned correctly, then the bottom feels off, but if I position the bottom lip correctly, then the top feels off. I don’t think this is a sudden problem. I think it’s happened over time, but now I’m starting to notice it impede my playing