A solid foundation

[Lionel]

Just re-set my signature. Quote is taken from a 2005 talk given by Dr William Moriarty. He who edited the. "Stevens-Costello Triple C Embouchure Technique" text. Published 1971.

Oftentimes I've heard the expression applied to learning good register on the trumpet,

"a contractor doesn't start building a house from the top floor on down".

The purpose of the statement seems to be to advise a developing trumpet player not to concentrate on his upper register too much at first. Making the comparison on the construction of a building.

I find myself both in agreement and disagreement with the analogy. All at the same time. What do they call that "cognitive dissonance"? As embouchure is not the same as a three dimensional structure. A building does require support for it's top floor. No doubt about that at all. You simply can not start working on the top floor until everything else structural is in place below it first.

Conversely if you know what you're doing? You can work with most any raw beginning trumpet player and rig his chops to play a G above high C. Maybe even a double C and higher. Now this note may not be worth ten cents in musicality but the tone can be produced on virtually any beginning trumpet player. I have seen this accomplished many times before myself.

However now we get to the part where I agree with the statement. As unless this person who has temporarily rigged his chops to blow high notes develops his lower and middle registers soon afterward? That and prepares his registers to all blend together seamlessly? Then whatever high notes he originally rigged up are probably kind of useless. A compromise seems to be in order here.

Because the world is composed almost entirely of trumpet players who can not play the entire range of the instrument. Not even if their life depended upon it. As Roy Stevens noted in the following loose quote,

"The average trumpet player starts out on a loose, low note embouchure. He continues to develop until one day he discovers that there is such a thing as an upper register. And except for a few rare cases he does not have one".

Like I said it's a loose quote. The problem I have with the "Strong Foundation" theory is that it will almost always produce trumpet players who have nothing above a high C at all. Now this is not necessarily a problem for school band directors. Because his goal isn't to produce a whole lineup of Doc Severinsens in the band. The director only needs to put average musicians on the bandstand in order to keep his job. So I don't blame him for teaching the trumpet the way that he usually does. The low note system in other words. His is almost always a numbers game. Get enough motivated, young instrumentalists out there on the field, most playing pretty well and then consider yourself a success. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Besides, who really knows what makes an embouchure tick? I'd sure like to think that I'm gettin closer to that ideal understanding. However the kind of knowledge that a so-called "chops-guru" has is mostly meant for the individual who really wants to learn high notes. This may require a more dedicated instrumentalist than the average. So I think it does.

So due to the described systemic considerations it appears to me that at least for right now? High notes are only for the minority. Those who through good fortune find that their physiology does not fight the production of high notes. The masses however will continue to struggle. Either that or simply be satisfied with having limited range.. Hopefully this could change.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[chuck in ny]

not a chop expert by any means but common sense dictates playing with one embouchure. in the extreme low pedal register i will admit to using additional lip extension but it is an extreme case, for drills only and not for performance.
we sign up for acquiring some high register facility when we pick up the instrument. if it isn't grand it should be workmanlike.

[delano]

Must be a great feeling to know that you are one of the few chosen.

[JayKosta]

[Brad361]

Good grief.

Before you make generalizations about band directors (and I’m not buying the passive aggressive “makes sense to me” stuff), try that gig for a few years and see what you think. I’m not a band director, though I do have a music Ed degree and teach lessons in a public school system, and I see what they have to deal with. Kids who are in generally the early stages of figuring out how to play an instrument and who are distracted with a thousand other activities, kids who spend way way too much time on various electronic devices and social media, kids dealing with braces on their teeth, kids whose parents reward them for doing basically nothing beyond minimal effort and do not expect them to take the horn out of the case anywhere besides in the band room, despite being informed repeatedly that if a kid never practices his lack of progress greatly increases the chance that he/she will want to quit. One parent actually told me she begs (BEGS!!) her sixth grader to practice. “Beg” was not in my parents’ vocabularies in dealing with me as a kid.

And I don’t know of any band director who is consciously teaching a “low note system”, I know lots of them who are trying to get students to play with a decent tone and intonation, the ability to read on at least a basic level and NOT QUIT. So yeah, in teaching ensembles, upper register pedagogy sometimes does take a back seat to that.

Hey, I know there are band directors and other public school teachers who basically tread water in order to make it to retirement, but the gig is not quite as easy as some people think.

I agree that upper register is an important part of being a good well rounded trumpet player, and for a lot of commercial genres it’s completely necessary. But I don’t know if we should expect band directors to be able and have the time necessary to help students develop range that’s often (at least in concert band and orchestra) just not as important as other aspects of being a good trumpet player. And just as a quick FYI, personally I’m not one of those guys who scoffs at the need for upper register because I have none. I’m no screamer, but I have a consistent F-G, which for many genres and the weekly funk/pop/rock weekly gigs I do is adequate.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[Lionel]

I'm not sure how to respond to some of these replies. My use of the term "systemic" has to do with the whole process of starting a kid out on the trumpet. It isn't the fault of the band director and I think this point was stated almost emphatically in the O/P. It's hard enough just to teach in schools today and I meant no malice towards anyone.

The problem is just that most teachers are not aware of the upper register being both sn attainable and necessary goal. Right straight from the get go! Nor do they realize that an unlimited embouchure is often critically dependent upon the early instruction of teeth, lip and mouthpiece placement and usage. As Roy Stevens said,

"You can't play on your teeth".

His Two Aperture Theory" explains, at least in part the need to inspect and adust the chops relative to the teeth. As well as the mouthpiece and buzz. While I don't expect that teachers of beginning students will immediately start accepting the benefit of starting a kid off on an unlimited embouchure? And certainly not just because I said they ought to do this. Yet I still see this idea as being of enough importance to start discussing.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[Brad361]

[JayKosta]

Regarding Lionel's mention of Roy Stevens and William Moriarity, I found this online pdf by Stevens, edited by Moriarity -

EMBOUCHURE SELF ANALYSIS

http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/stevens/stevens.pdf

I'm just starting to read thru it now.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[trumpetteacher1]

[Harry Hilgers]

[JayKosta]

[trumpetteacher1]

Apparently you missed my meaning when I said "throw the baby out with the bathwater." Sure, there are times when students get out of control and the clamps need to be applied, but I'm not talking about obvious discipline problems.

As for your other comment about not needing to play much above high C, I think that you are missing the point. I rarely run into an adult player who does not secretly wish for more range. My experience is that the upper register is much easier to learn if it is introduced early in the educational process. Much less fear down the road.

Jeff

[Brad361]

[JayKosta]

[Brad361]

[trumpetteacher1]

[JayKosta]

[mike ansberry]

I have taught band at various levels for 33 years. I don't know many band directors who actively discourage range development. But I believe that the vast majority of band directors, even the brass playing ones, don't have the knowledge of how to play above high C easily. I,unfortunately, am one of them. I have studied with many several of the top trumpet teachers in the U.S. and still struggle with range and endurance. Almost every band director I know encourages private lessons. This enables the student to get instruction from highly qualified teachers on each instrument. I ran an after school lesson program so my kids could have access. Me trying to teach a bassoonist advanced techniques would be impossible.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[trumpetteacher1]

[trumpetteacher1]