Request for help in mouthpiece selection

newcornetplayer

Hello - I am a 74 year old ex trombonist (HS/College) who has always had a love for the flugelhorn. Since I am retired, I have time to practice, but since a decent flugelhorn is a bit expensive, I reasoned that starting off with a cornet was a way to see whether I could be successful. I went to a local pawn shop and picked an Olds Ambassador that was in pretty good shape for $40 and now I need to consider the best mouthpiece for an older learner to use as a start. Since I bought the horn I have accumulated 3 mouthpieces. 1) a Conn 7 that came in the horn, 2) a Holton Heim model 2 bought for $10, and 3) a Bach 7C given to me me. I do not know if any of these are cornet mouthpieces or for a trumpet or if there is a difference

Any guidance you experts can provide is most appreciated.

Finally any thoughts on trying this on line or taking lessos would help me greatly.

Thanks in advance, Dave B

newcornetplayer · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject:

Oops - typo. That is a Conn 4 sorry!,
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Thank you for your help

stickyvalves5900 · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject:

I like the Kelly plastic fluegelhorn and cornet pieces. If you are just starting out, they are inexpensive and I like the fact that they kind of hold your chops in the cup. Really easy to play. There are many fine used mouthpieces out there. Nice thing is you can try quite a few for cheap.
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William Cryderman

cheiden · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:59 pm Post subject:

Cornet mouthpieces are noticeably shorter than trumpet mouthpieces, and they are smaller on the end. A trumpet mouthpiece probably won't fit very deep into your horn. Any music shop should be able to clarify if you indeed have a proper fitting cornet mouthpiece.

If you're unsure of the best size I'd recommend trying pieces of the standard Yamaha long-shank cornet mouthpieces. A lot of stores stock them (at least some sizes). When you find a size you like you can usually find one used for cheap. Yamaha size 11 approximates your Bach 7C piece with a softer bite. Yamaha sizes 14-16 approximate other popular Bach sizes.

Best of luck.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 550

I must respectfully disagree with cheiden. I wouldn't put a Yammy mouthpiece in anything but a Yammy horn, unless the mouthpiece has been designed separately, like the Yammy Shew Jazz which is essentially a Bach 3C cup with a tighter backbore.

I do agree that since you have experience in brass, none of the cornet mouthpieces you have may do justice to your Olds Ambassador cornet, or your embouchure.

What kind of tone do you want out of the cornet? If you want to play in a community band section, you might want a bowl cup mouthpiece like a 3C variant that will brighten the tone.

Since you mentioned you like flugels, you may want a mouthpiece that will help you get a more mellow tone, which requires a deeper V cup.

I will not recommend X or Y mouthpiece like others have done. That does you a disservice. It is time to consult an expert at one of the well known shops who specialize in fitting mouthpieces so you don't waste money on a needless safari, and can try several different mouthpieces to narrow the range to a few choices.

Welcome to upper brass.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

cheiden · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:18 am Post subject:

Richard III · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:45 am Post subject:

Of the three mouthpieces you have, the Conn 4 would probably get you closer to what you are looking for. The Holton Heim 2 would be good if you were doing tradition dixieland style jazz.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:05 am Post subject:

This is a never-ending story that can easily get out of hand.

If I were you, I'd just get a middle-of- the-road Curry cornet mouthpiece, be done with it, and hit the shed. Considering the sound you are going for, I would probably get a 5 VC but look.

Your time is much more wisely spent practicing your fundamentals than on a mouthpiece chase.

http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=49
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:44 am Post subject:

Hi

I personally would suggest one of the Curry cornet mouthpiece models. They are very good, consistent, well made, reasonably priced cornet mouthpieces.

On an Olds Ambassador, I'd probably try the DC model. I'm basing my thoughts on what mouthpiece best suits an Olds Ambassador cornet, only from my experience of playing a more modern Olds Special cornet with the same wrap as the Ambassador, for only a year over 20 years ago, so if they don't mind, it may be better if others chime in here.

My personal favourite of the Curry cornet models is the TC.

Additionally, I'm not sure whether this is applicable to your cornet, but Mark Curry says the following on his website:

Special Shanks
Any of the above mouthpieces can be ordered in the oversize Olds shank or the new Conn short cornet for a small additional charge.

NEW!! Conn short cornet blank now available! Pre-1958 (serial numbers less than 700,00) Conn cornet afficianados can now order their favorite Curry cornet cup in the correct size for these popular cornets. At 2.5" long with the correct 60 thousandths/inch taper (and correct shank diameter) these vintage cornets speak easier with better intonation! Thanks to Rick Henrickson of NYC and Alan Hancock (UK) for their insightful help and research. For more, check out this informative link http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnArticle34.html.

Taken from:

http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=49

I hope that this will help.

Best wishes

Lou

P.S. No offence to Cheiden for his suggestion of a Yamaha cornet mouthpiece (Yamaha mouthpieces would be a great suggestion in my opinion for someone starting out on trumpet), but I have a feeling that this may not be wise, only because they insert a long way into the receiver and won't seat in the receiver of some cornets.

P.P.S From the matched set of Olds Special nickel plated cornets that my last brass band owned before they switched to Bach 184MLs (I know, unusual choices for a British Brass Band, but I believe the Olds Special cornets were donated when the band started, and the Bach 184MLs were chosen by the principal cornet at the time, who was predominantly a big band lead trumpeter), I've formed the conclusion that they were supplied with the Giardinelli (in the same blank at the one below) 7C cornet mouthpiece, which I believe was equivalent in size to a Bach 3C. Of course, someone may have purchased a set of Giardinelli cornet mouthpieces and matched them up with the Olds Special cornets. If so they seemed to go together ok.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Giardinelli-New-York-7C-Cornet-Mouthpiece-Ships-Free-/292920631708?_ul=AR
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

Harry Hilgers · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2595

I don't know what you consider to be expensive but my experience with eBay Chinese stencilflugels is that they're better than decent and can be had for under $300 brand new.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

newcornetplayer · Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:58 am Post subject:

Just wanted to take a moments to thank everyone who took some of their time to reply. There are clearly many options to consider and as kehaulani suggests this could be similar to Alice going down the rabbit hole. Thanks to iiipope for the welcome to upper brass. I always wanted to be here but in HS the bigger kids got the trombones and baritones. Anyway, my tone search is for a derker sound and to fit into last (hallway?) chair in the Melbourne FL community band and play the flugel at home while making music (the main thing!) on GarageBand. Small goals. The cultural avenues where I live are limited so...
Where I am right now is to check out the Kelly 3C as a starter mpc and also try a Kelly 6V if it fits in my horn (my 3 mpc look like they have been through a war). The Kelly’s are not end all mpc but I remember the comfort of my Lexan trombone mpc years ago and those shouldn’t break my retired bank. While building up my lips, embrochure and skills, I’ll watch EBay for the Curry models suggested or see if I can find a DW4. By then I may have met some folks who are looking to lighten their mpc bags. If anyone sees a fault in my logic, would appreciate an input. I’m always looking for ideas.
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Thank you for your help

Louise Finch · Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:07 pm Post subject:

Hi newcornetplayer

You are very welcome. Your logic sounds fine, but I personally wouldn't combine an Olds Ambassador with a Denis Wick mouthpiece. My experience with a later Olds Special cornet with the same wrap as the Ambassador, was that the Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces were not a good match.

The Kelly 3C should be fine.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

newcornetplayer · Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:37 am Post subject:

Lou,

Thanx again for the reply. I’d probably bought a DW4 if you hadn’t pointed out the wrap on an olds ambassador. I’m ordering the Kelly this week and will advise on how it works. In the meantime will be on the lookout for a used Curry.
Dave B
_________________
Thank you for your help

Louise Finch · Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:21 am Post subject:

Crazy Finn · Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:04 am Post subject:

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

Tim McGinley · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:08 pm Post subject:

Melbourn? Go see Scott at THE HORN SECTIO"N music store. he's a fine trumpet player and knows mouthpieces inside and out.
[/quote]

+1. Seeing your location, this is the best advice you could get! There is a lot of experience on this forum but nothing can replace live interaction in this particular case!

T-

delano · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:41 am Post subject:

short comment:

- Yamaha long shank mp's fit and play well in an Ambassador cornet, the comment of iiipopes about Yamaha mp's in general is wrong, dangerous and must be considered as cheap gossip.
- with a C-cup you will never get a real mellow sound especially out of a long cornet.
- a Curry VC is not a middle-of-the-road mp.
- Curry DC mp's are way too bright for almost everything.
- the Curry BBC is a better rebirth of the Wick B

Good luck

I own several Yamaha mp's, play them on any horn, also own a Curry BBC, DC and VC. BTW my Eterna 800 cornet coupled with a Yamaha short shank 14E is for me the best combination of all (for you iiipopes).
I play my Ambassador cornet, which is a travel practice horn, with a JK 3C, excellent and cheap mouthpiece for this horn (almost ten years of experience now on that horn), but I am not striving for a mellow sound on it.