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jhatpro
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: 80A Valve Play |
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I have a 1940s era Conn 80A that plays well even though the valves wobble side to side more than other horns I have.
Strangely, all the usual checks reveal no air leaks.
Is it unusual for a horn that plays well to have valves with what seems to be more than normal play? Is this a characteristic of Conn’s Crysteel valves?
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I was looking up old threads about valves and noticed this statement:
| Quote: | | Several years ago I foolishly tried to remove the frozen valves from an old cornet using a Black & Decker drill. I soon found myself hanging on with both hands while the horn spun around the mandrel like a Mallard on speed. Fortunately, I was able to kick the plug out before I lost any important body parts. Thus endeth my career as a brass repairman. |
Has nothing to do with your question, but I thought it funny. Back to your normal programming.
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Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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Halflip
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Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it possible that the valve stems are loose and are creating the impression of side-to-side play in the pistons? (My apologies if you've already checked this.) |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Richard, for your research. I’d almost forgotten my bout with the Black & Decker.
And thanks as well, Halflip, for your suggestion. I checked the stems and they seem OK. I think I’ll see what Dr. Valve thinks. His shop isn’t far.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3297
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:18 am Post subject: Re: 80A Valve Play |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | ... the valves wobble side to side more than other horns I have. ... |
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It's possible that the 'loose areas' are not in alignment with the actual ports, so the air seal remains good. The lack of air leakage might also be due to the type & weight of valve oil being used.
Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Good possibility, thanks. Sounds like a PVA is in order.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | Good possibility, thanks. Sounds like a PVA is in order. |
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Just curious, why do you think a valve alignment would help? Earlier it was said the trumpet 'plays good'.
A PVA might give better sound/evenness/etc. but I doubt it would affect the 'wiggle' unless mechanical problems with how the valve fit the casings was also fixed.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jhatpro
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Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:50 am Post subject: |
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My experience is PVA can mean the difference between good and great. But I think you’re right that the wiggle should be addressed first.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3297
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | My experience is PVA can mean the difference between good and great. But I think you’re right that the wiggle should be addressed first. |
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I'd only be worried about the wiggle if it is a recent change that might be a sign of something 'getting worse'. If the valves always had some wiggle and no signs of worsening, then I wouldn't consider it a problem. Sure it might be fixable, but at what expense & risk.
Or if the current valve alignment is determined to justify changing, and the wiggle would prohibit it.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Probably right. However I think I'll run it by Dr. Valve anyway to see what he thinks. I'll post his findings here.
As for expense, I'm 77 and have no intention of dying with money on the table.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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