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Paul Mayes and Greg Spence



 
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Paul Mayes and Greg Spence Reply with quote

Kind of an open ended question. But has anyone spent time watching videos from these two guys?
I'm recently drawn back into the world of contemplation after having watched a handful of their stuff.

Specifically I'm intrigued by what seems to be different explanations for possibly the same approach. They both focus on a relaxed embouchure. Greg specifically works from the angle of not using a push of air when changing pitch. Paul specifically utilizes the push.

I've had some positive progress when concentrating on staying relaxed, but it seems to be somewhat limited without additional guidance.
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LSOfanboy
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both are really fantastic players with a terrific knowledge of the instrument.

Neither are wrong, they are coming from slightly different angles but both know exactly what they are talking about.

Listen to them both and work with both concepts they put forward.

All the best
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Rod Haney
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Joined: 22 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can recommend Spence program and I am going to begin BE soon, they look like they will work well together. Both take a leap of faith.
Rod
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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite familiar with Greg Spence's materials, and he is certainly an excellent player and musician.

Am very happy to discover Paul Mayes videos. Wish it weren't late at night where I am so I could bust the horn out and experiment some!
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching several videos from both guys I suppose I've come to two main conclusions. At least, concepts that are helping me progress.

1) Try to stay relaxed in the center of the embouchure. and

2) We have more than enough "strength" to do what we need to do. But we need to learn how to coordinate all the parts.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg is usually more correct in his approach. That is, from a technically correct standpoint. Many teachers use metaphors to induce actions. That does not mean that the underlying science is correct.

Paul seems to engage in metaphors but what he says is not technically accurate. The aperture must change to change pitch. The aperture is also less relaxed on higher pitches. Paul also says one thing and does another. For example he says breathe with a sigh, but playing loud and or high notes requires more air pressure than simply sighing. He also claims that the aperture is relaxed to ascend yet when he is playing he actually engages in tensioning the aperture, which, of course causes the pitch to change. He then tries to claim that it is the air pressure that cause the pitch to change.

Of course, air pressure controls the loudness, it does not determine the pitch.

Paul also seems to engage in this concept that resistance of the aperture determines air pressure, which is technically false in this case. The lung state, and blowing effort determining the air pressure when playing. The resistance of the whole system then determines the airflow.

Obviously both are skilled players. Paul seems to be more refined but don't take his metaphors literally.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been checking out his videos over the last few days and they're really great! And man, what a great player he is as well! I have found his videos really helpful for me personally already.

Whether or not it is scientifically accurate I don't really care.

I would love to know more about the 'engine components' diagram he showed in one of the videos. He talks about many systems being needed to make use of each player's anatomy and I'm keen to hear more about how he deals with all of that.

But yeah, what a fantastic players. His Characteristic studies recordings are very, very nice playing. And there's a Gospel John recording which shows he really can do it all. Fantastic!
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Tobylou8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw Bryan Davis's videos into the mix for your perusal. He touches on BOTH approaches to blowing. In his "O" for overblowing video he explains how relaxed blowing and overblowing are useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4o-1LBU9c&list=PLuD-WY6dSa_bCxzcq468kK3XVcE2Wb8A7&index=16&t=0s

The problem I see with the "either/or" approach is that you can miss an aspect of playing that can help you simply because someone tells you it's "wrong", so you ignore it. A buddy of mine is lauding the Spence approach, which isn't wrong, particularly leadpipe blowing. Goofing off after rehearsal I showed him I could "defeat" the exercise. He was dumbfounded. How could I do that he said. I just opened my aperture to where no buzz could be created. There's a lot to be learned about playing trumpet, but you can't learn from what you ignore. Enjoy the video.
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arenarx68
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Joined: 20 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
After watching several videos from both guys I suppose I've come to two main conclusions. At least, concepts that are helping me progress.

1) Try to stay relaxed in the center of the embouchure. and

2) We have more than enough "strength" to do what we need to do. But we need to learn how to coordinate all the parts.


I have watched a lot of Spence and find him helpful.
I am currently working in the Caruso book which specifically talks about building strength. I am not quite sure how to reconcile the two. One seems to say we have enough "strength", the other focuses on building strength.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arenarx68 wrote:
... One seems to say we have enough "strength", the other focuses on building strength.

-------------------------------------
Perhaps it's the difference between having the basic (but unskilled) musculature to produce the needed playing strength, and actually strengthening certain muscles and learning how to use them effectively for playing.
Similar to how many athletes have the basic strength to perform better, but don't quite have the skill to fully use it.

This might be an example of the value (and need) for very precise, correct, and understandable writing and speaking when doing teaching.

Jay
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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arenarx68 wrote:
acritzer wrote:
After watching several videos from both guys I suppose I've come to two main conclusions. At least, concepts that are helping me progress.

1) Try to stay relaxed in the center of the embouchure. and

2) We have more than enough "strength" to do what we need to do. But we need to learn how to coordinate all the parts.


I have watched a lot of Spence and find him helpful.
I am currently working in the Caruso book which specifically talks about building strength. I am not quite sure how to reconcile the two. One seems to say we have enough "strength", the other focuses on building strength.


I found Paul Mayes tip of 'keeping the top lip relaxed' more helpful than thinking of keeping both lips relaxed. Also, I personally found some of the images and descriptions of the embouchure Spence uses to not be helpful for me.
If you look at what Spence is demonstrating, he looks like he is probably an upstream player, and the embouchure just doesn't work the same for everyone. Some players really need to use a 'tuck and roll' approach to make the upper register work. If you do that with a visualiser, it won't look anything like Spence's embouchure examples etc.
That said, the rest of his materials are great and will be helpful for a lot of players in terms of a practice routine. I just didn't find some of his basically concepts of how the instrument works to be very useful for me.

Paul Mayes seems to be doing something closer to what I do naturally, and I think his explanations are making more sense to me from what I've seen so far.
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Trompette111
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Joined: 19 Mar 2019
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Location: Germany/UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was not knowing these men before. Now I am very excited to follow their training. Thank you
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trompette111 wrote:
I was not knowing these men before. Now I am very excited to follow their training. Thank you


Beide sind gro├čartige Spieler und gro├čartige Lehrer. Willkommen bei TrumpetHerald!
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