Bach 238 bell?

TrptSTP · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Bach 238 bell?

This is simply to satisfy my own curiosity. Has anyone here had any playing time with a Bach 238 bell on a C trumpet? I'm curious as to what the playing qualities are in reality rather than the stock Bach explanation of the product. I have only seen one 238 in person, which was on an old Tottle custom owned by Robert Sullivan of the Cleveland Orchestra. Mr. Tottle seemed to favor the 238 for his custom C's from what I've read. I've never actually gotten to play one. Thank you in advance.

James Becker · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:

The Bach C180 238 bell has much in common with the Bach 72 and 65 Vindebona Bb bells. Like these Bb counterparts, the 238 is made very wide through the stem and throat to produce a broad, dark sound. From what I understand the C trumpets Bill Tottle assembled for members of the BSO were commonly built on a CML bodies with full length Bb mouthpipes fixed to the main tuning bow with these assemblies mounted with modular braces making them removable and a tuning bell.

During the early 90's when Yamaha introduced their Designer Series trumpets they offered a 238 equivalent with the designation "U" bell. I can only speculate that this was made for former BSO member and Yamaha trumpet Artist Armando Ghitalla.

I hope this is helpful.
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roytrpt · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject:

I had a 238 Tottlephone for quite a few years. Loved it. Used to say that I would be buried with it. Sound, feel, pitch, response....great. Feedback behind the horn...... extraordinary presence. Sadly, I felt that it encouraged the enjoyment of a warm wall of sound around me, to the detriment of what was actually going out front. Two shocking lessons to me. I was not projecting the sound. I'm not Ghitalla. YMMV.
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Froggynut · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 591

I just sold my Bach C 238G Bell trumpet. It was amazing with a huge rich sound. I still have a Bach XL Eflat/D with a 238G bell that im selling.

Maarten van Weverwijk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377

It's a bit of an outsider, but still a very nice bell if you are looking for a huge sound.
Read about my 238 adventure here (with some great response from fellow TH members):
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum//viewtopic.php?t=57174&highlight=bach+238
I still have that trumpet as my back-up C-trumpet (and used it occasionally), but just bought a new main axe. The 238-7R will probably have to go, since I don't think I'll need a back-up of a back-up of a back-up trumpet

.

MvW.

johntpt · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:47 am Post subject:

I'll agree with Roy here. The 238 sounds great in a small room at home, and for Ghitalla it obviously worked well in Symphony Hall in the BSO brass section of the 1960s and 1970s, but in a big full modern brass section the 238 doesn't project and "cut" the way a 229 or 239 does. It might be a good alternative for Beethoven and Brahms for those who don't like playing rotary instruments.

JU

Maarten van Weverwijk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377

TrptSTP · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:43 am Post subject:

Thank you all for the great responses. I wonder if a 238G* would be a better balance for a bell. Having a lighter better with more diverse overtones present from the bell material. If such a bell exists (especially now *sigh*) it might be interesting to try. The lightweight gauge might add enough momentum to the sound to make it a viable bell alternative. Just a thought.

George Coble · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

I have always enjoyed the sound, response, and intonation of the V Bach 238 bell and, in fact, my very first C trumpet was ordered from the Bach factory in 1967 and was a Bach 180CL with a 238 bell. I consider the 238 bell to be the most in tune of all the current Bach C trumpet bells offered. In 2000, I ordered a Bach 180CL with a gold brass 238 bell and a #43 leadpipe in an effort to mimic the 45 year old Vindabona offering. I even ordered two tuning slides that tapered from .459 to .462 to complete the equasion. Unfortunately, while this horn was dark to beat the band, it had issues concerning projection and as robust as I thought my physique was, I soon returned to the 229 180CL platform in order to keep up with the trombones. However, if one has difficulties with playing too much on the bright side, the 238 brass bell (with a #25 leadpipe) has more than enough projection capabilities as well as being able to play dark and very in tune. I imagine that a Mt. Vernon 238 bell with its thinner metal and brass bead would be just about perfect.

Best, George Coble

Froggynut · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 591

Mr. Coble. I was the one who actually ended up with your horn, purchasing it from Dillons. I played two seasons in Italy playing principal with that horn, and I really loved it! The only issue was "cutting through the orchestra" It was such a rich dark sound that I felt like when I needed to cut through it remained too dark. I did a full Larson conversion on it that helped, but ended up selling it last month. I indeed loved that horn and you will be happy to know took great care of it.

froggy

MisterE · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject:

Charlie Schlueter played a CL 238 25S (the full length Bb pipe) while he still played Bachs. Check out some of the early 80s BSO recordings and you´ll hear him playing it!! Don Quixote comes to mind- amazing!! I believe Andrew Balio ended up with that trumpet. I had Charlie´s 72* ML Bb that he used when in Cleveland for a few years. Im a dumbshit for selling it, jajaja. The 238 Ctpt I felt was a little "woofy" for the way I play but nonetheless a great trumpet.

trpt2 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: 238 bell

I had a 238/25A unlacquered C that I used for some things in Montreal- I absolutely loved the horn. What I liked about it was that it could take whatever I could put into the horn, and never back up, or get "bright" at extreme volume- it really held the sound well! Also, you could play very soft on it- something one might not expect from such a large bell.
In Philly, it didn't quite fit in the "blend" , so I wasn't using it much, and sold it. Biggest mistake !! On work outside the Orchestra that I do, I have greatly missed having it around! I'd buy it back in a heartbeat!

Bob

PS- Hey George- Glad to see you posting here- we need to talk! Bob

MisterE · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject:

Bob, ain´t it funny that a few years after the the fact you say "DAMN I shouldn´tve sold that horn...." jajaja. My list of those horns is bigger than my actual arsenal!! DOH!!

NickP · New Member Joined: 15 Nov 2017 Posts: 1 Location: Cary, NC

I played a CL 238 for several years. I agree with all the positive comments but disagree with the contention that it can't project or cut when challenged by the orchestra. I found that it was more than capable of asserting a strong presence in the most dense passages. As with any equipment, it depends on the player. <Selling is prohibited in the Forum>

trumpet56 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:28 am Post subject:

I have a 238 Mount Vernon that has the best intonation of any C trumpet I've ever played..
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coraltrpt · Regular Member Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Posts: 88

Sorry to resurrect this one: what do you all think of equipping a 238 bell on a Schilke Eb trumpet? There's one for sale that I might try this with. Sounds like the darkness of this bell might be good for the brightness of my current setup.

Thanks!

Rompson · Regular Member Joined: 04 May 2013 Posts: 86