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Moderators
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Medical Discussions Reply with quote

Trumpet Herald is a community of trumpet players, not medical professionals, though we have both in fair abundance. Except for very general questions and commiserations this is not the right place to provide and debate medical advice and treatment. Health and welfare, within reason, but medical advice, no.

Several threads have been pulled without malice to any posters; they are just not really appropriate for TH, especially when they go beyond general sharing of experiences and result in contradictory medical advice.

As our sysadmin says: In the Spirit of Music - TH Forum Moderators


Last edited by Moderators on Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallelujah.

There has been one thing about this forum which is quite annoying: the situation the mods have now addressed. Just like a lawyer representing their foolish selves, people asking trumpet players for professional medical advice need their heads read by someone far more qualified.

I know if I had taken some of the well meaning advice friends and colleagues gave me during cancer treatment I would have either dramatically reduced the efficacy of the treatment, or not be here today at all. None were medical practitioners. One piece of advice, very formal sounding and all with dosages included, would have cut my chemo treatment benefit by about 60% one oncologist estimated.

It can cut both ways (pun intended and will become obvious) as at a conference to discuss my treatment plan for the same issue, it took a trombone playing registrar to stop a senior surgeon from having his way and my being slated for surgery which is today considered not necessary. (We had played together in a doctors' orchestra) That procedure would have been a playing ending move. But this is not common, just dumb luck.

Most doctors I know in music and scuba diving (which has many, and some rather notorious/famous ones as well) will not give you specific advice, but a general hint and the firm word of GO SEE 'DR XYZ' NOW.

Sort of like us teachers who will say 'Go get a good teacher'.

cheers and THANK YOU MODS!

Andy
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a physician, and I agree with this policy. I'm sure that most of what is posted is done so with the best of intentions. But I agree that we should not ask or receive medical advice on TH.

On a related point, there have been many studies on the quality of online health information in forums and on informational sites. It's been determined that about 75% of all online health information is incorrect. TH would be no exception, if it allowed medical advice to be posted. I agree with the moderators, so that TH doesn't add to this problem.

Mike
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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
I'm a physician, and I agree with this policy. I'm sure that most of what is posted is done so with the best of intentions. But I agree that we should not ask or receive medical advice on TH.

On a related point, there have been many studies on the quality of online health information in forums and on informational sites. It's been determined that about 75% of all online health information is incorrect. TH would be no exception, if it allowed medical advice to be posted. I agree with the moderators, so that TH doesn't add to this problem.

Mike


So you're saying post a question, read the replies, and treat them like a contraindicator. Whatever the consensus says, the opposite is 75% correct. That's pretty reliable.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinstriper wrote:
So you're saying post a question, read the replies, and treat them like a contraindicator. Whatever the consensus says, the opposite is 75% correct. That's pretty reliable.

Ironically, that might not be a bad way to go. Like "opposite George" from Seinfeld. Another option would be to go online to high-quality medical sites, like the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/) and NLM (https://medlineplus.gov/).

Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
pinstriper wrote:
So you're saying post a question, read the replies, and treat them like a contraindicator. Whatever the consensus says, the opposite is 75% correct. That's pretty reliable.

Ironically, that might not be a bad way to go. Like "opposite George" from Seinfeld. Another option would be to go online to high-quality medical sites, like the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/) and NLM (https://medlineplus.gov/).

Mike


Nothing ironic about it. OK, actually it is ironic. But I was serious. Negative correlation is a firmly understood concept on Wall St. and in other arenas of endeavor.

I just never saw it quantified before.

I think it is worthwhile for folks to exchange information about what (they think) they have been told by their doctors. But I think it is foolish for them to think that is a useful substitute for getting an appointment of their own. If it arms them with the right questions before their visit, great. They get more out of it. If it convinces them of some alternative to getting a real opinion for their case, well...that is just foolishness.
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinstriper wrote:
I just never saw it quantified before.



You still may not have seen it quantified.

Gary.
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not really counted but I think that of all the trumpet(playing) related advices on this forum less than 10% is correct and/or useful, the other 90% is at best wellmeant guessing, wishful thinking or often downright nonsense. Still no reason to stop them.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gets me is that a person will ask a forum, or a group of friends, or any other community of "laymen" when it is an issue requiring professional help.

Medical? Go see your primary care physician.
Legal? Go see a lawyer who practices in that area of law.
Tax or Financial? Go see a qualified CPA, financial advisor, etc.

The worst thing a person can do is try to air it out on a forum among all of us that, well intentioned, do not have the professional qualifications to address the situation. Worse, long distance and cyber-analysis of the problem, and the problems related to loss of context from the limitations of posting, can make matters worse, not better.

I agree with the policy decision of this forum and thank the owners and moderators.
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Hi-Note76
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Location: Southeastern US

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
What gets me is that a person will ask a forum, or a group of friends, or any other community of "laymen" when it is an issue requiring professional help.

Medical? Go see your primary care physician.
Legal? Go see a lawyer who practices in that area of law.
Tax or Financial? Go see a qualified CPA, financial advisor, etc.

The worst thing a person can do is try to air it out on a forum among all of us that, well intentioned, do not have the professional qualifications to address the situation. Worse, long distance and cyber-analysis of the problem, and the problems related to loss of context from the limitations of posting, can make matters worse, not better.

I agree with the policy decision of this forum and thank the owners and moderators.


If conventional medicine (your wonderful medical doctors) knows NOTHING about candida albicans overgrowth in the gut (which they DON'T) meaning they don't know how to diagnose or treat it to diagnose a candida albicans overgrowth, then THEY are the ones who are the LAYMEN. Most often, people go to the doctor with symptoms of candida albicans overgrowth and the doctor will go on a wild goose chase and never figure out what's wrong. Then they'll tell the patient, they're imagining it--it's all in their head. In such a case, searching the internet is better than continuing to beat your head against the wall with an ignorant medical doctor.

FUNCTIONAL MEDICINE is the wave of the future. Functional medicine physicians know more about how the body functions and approach problems from a root cause perspective, rather than just listening to symptoms or looking at inconclusive or unreliable lab tests.

Autoimmune diseases--medical doctors are clueless about these. I don't care where you go, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, whatever. They are clueless. They'll put a mis-diagnosis on you, give you drugs that don't fix your problem, yet harm you in other ways and make you worse off than when you got there.

I consider candida albicans an autoimmune disease because it does cause the immune system to attack the joints and causes joint inflammation. Your doctors will turn around and tell you that you have arthritis and give you meds for that. Meanwhile, your candida albicans gets worse and eventually causes cancer.

"He truly lives dangerously who trusts his health to a doctor;
his rights to a lawyer, his money to a banker or his soul to a preacher."

The only advice I gave was for people to be their own advocates and do their research before taking the advice of a doctor. If you're not very intelligent and are willing to put blind faith in someone with a conflict-of-interest, you can continue to follow the sheeple.

A person came on here talking about candida albicans. I informed him that it is not an STD. I also informed him that medical doctors do not have a clue about candida albicans. Candida is often the cause of a variety of cancers. If your wonderful medical doctors knew more about it, there would be far fewer cases of cancer.

I had written a rather lengthy and informative post about how medical doctors do not know how to diagnose or treat candida albicans and if they do diagnose it, the drugs that they prescribe are very harmful to the liver. But rather than move the thread to a lounge or something, our moderators decided to delete it.

Medical doctors ARE laymen themselves when it comes to certain diseases. But more importantly, they are definitely laymen when it comes to FUNCTIONAL MEDICINE. Functional medicine doctors find the root cause of an illness and they cure by fixing the root cause. Medical doctors treat symptoms, thus they rarely cure, they only mask, and the drugs that they give you to mask the symptoms will kill you faster than your original ailment in most cases.

When it comes to an overgrowth of candida albicans in the gut, most people won't know that they have it and the medical doctors (conventional medicine) will never figure it out and give them all kinds of harmful things and never cure them.

Just watch this video for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=104&v=Elb_BDzE0Gk


Last edited by Hi-Note76 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghelbig wrote:
pinstriper wrote:
I just never saw it quantified before.



You still may not have seen it quantified.

Gary.



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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are medical issues and the effects of drugs or treatments that are unique to trumpet. There are certainly going to be experiences shared here that can't be found anyplace else. And while I appreciate that the moderators would want to limit or eliminate questionable advise from becoming permanent, I do hope that they will allow the questions to be posted so that private correspondence can still be made.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that some degree of discussion regarding medical issues peculiar to instrumental musicians is appropriate here. I can tell you that a recent thread here on TH has led to an accurate diagnosis of a mysterious respiratory condition I've had for 40 years. I'm finally able to take action to treat the source of the problem rather than just treating the symptoms. I suspect that a lot of players who think they have asthma actually have the condition described in this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5553096/

The condition goes by several names such as "Trombone Lung" and "Bag Pipe Lung." It is essentially hypersensitivity pneumonitis caused by an allergic reaction to molds and bacteria growing in the instrument and inhaled by the player as the instrument is being played. This can be an extremely debilitating condition (Bill Watrous almost died from it about 10 years ago and six months ago I had an episode so severe we called 911).

Regularly cleaning your horn with 91% isopropyl alcohol should be standard operating procedure. As a side benefit, 91% isopropyl alcohol works as an effective valve oil and it's very cheap (about $2.50/pint).
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a slippery slope but what we want to avoid are a bunch of posts with bad or even dangerous medical advice. This is just not the place and people could be easily misled.

"I've got a problem, anybody seen this?" are usually OK, though giving out personal details is unwise, but "Your doctor is wrong, do this instead" is not.

Please take further discussion to the Lounge.
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