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And at the end of the rainbow...



 
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: And at the end of the rainbow... Reply with quote

So - I played my King for some 48 years - thought it was time to make some changes, found the Bach 1B LT190 Commercial 2 years ago - tried to master this in itself brilliant horn only to realize 1)I wasn´t brilliant 2)this was a mismatch. Sold it to a guy who immediately reached Nirvana.
How different we are.
Recovering I started the horn safari again - partly prompted by a chap in the band, playing a Hub van Laar B3 lovely horn, somewhat too "loose" in my taste - he recommended a van Laar B5. So I contacted a not local dealer who cunningly sent me 3 horns: Yamaha 6335 RC (brand new model), van Laar B5 and a Yamaha "LA" Bergeron model.
The very moment I played the first notes on the RC something way down told me - that´s the one but I tried the other horns thoroughly and finally brought them along to rehearsals. And finally realized my initial hunch was correct - the Y 6335RC simply, for me, is THE HORN. Wow. Amazing. Excactly that resistance I need, big warm sound, pure, no compensation seemingly needed, clean clear high register - easy but not too easy to play,helping me out, I don´t have to "handle" it, it does what I want "by itself".

In all fairness: the other horns? The LA also a very nice horn, me behind it not as warm, but big&great sound, wonderful projection, but I became more observant = required a tiny bit of "handling" - from me.
The B5 quite a different animal - pure compact clean distinct sound, opens up beautifully when called upon, probably a sharp axe in the hand of some qualified lead player - but I simply didn´t like it!

During the safari I´ve been taught and have realized that the "resistance" is a significant variable, one that should come as number one on the list - does the horn help you, the subjective awareness of possible "handling requirements" or the opposite, the (also subjective) awareness of nothing but the music, not the horn. Difficult to pinpoint. Then we have the sound variable - does this or that sound appeal to you? One aspect in this for me is that I´m vaguely reminded of my time as the soprano man, in the band (Luncefordian hint) - up high, clean yet round&soft.
Which also highlites the importance of all these minute feedback loops.
And of course the subjectivity behind all decisions.

So: mouthpiece safari over and done with - horn safari over and done with!
Well, contemplating this, well if I found this Yamaha RC that sublime, maybe my Getzen 3850 cornet might be replaced by some....
Forgive me for ranting - just wanted to share my moment.
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Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7004
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a good rant!
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations, "Selmer". Long haul but I assume worth it.
How do you intend on using it. (I don't mean as a lamp vs. instrument. )
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1459
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Congratulations, "Selmer". Long haul but I assume worth it.
How do you intend on using it. (I don't mean as a lamp vs. instrument. )



In the big bands, foremost as lead (or every other part)but also for concertbands - seems to me it could be applied in all kinds of settings..
Added: prompted by your question I tested the horn on the common Hummel, andante (quaver=65) and the last lively movement (takada takada takadadedada...)finding very it very fitting; There is something crisp, clean, warm, agile in its personality. So from "Over the rainbow" to Hayden - nothing seems foreign to this remarkable horn. A true allrounder. I am but a mere amateur but this horn promises to add ability as well as years to me!
And-in relation to most other horns it is cheap!
Go test one!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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Winnipeg
Regular Member


Joined: 05 Oct 2018
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject: Yamaha Commercial Reply with quote

I just stumbled into this thread. I'm very curious about this new Yamaha. I had been considering a Bobby Shew but the price of these makes them a very attractive option. I'm very limited in what's available for me to test drive so I value well considered opinions very much. Anyone else have any first hand experience and/or perhaps some comparisons between this model and The Bobby Shew, or Wild Thing?
Thanks,

GB
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veery715
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha Commercial Reply with quote

Winnipeg wrote:
I just stumbled into this thread. I'm very curious about this new Yamaha. I had been considering a Bobby Shew but the price of these makes them a very attractive option. I'm very limited in what's available for me to test drive so I value well considered opinions very much. Anyone else have any first hand experience and/or perhaps some comparisons between this model and The Bobby Shew, or Wild Thing?
Thanks,

GB
I don't know about the new Yammie, but there is a BIG difference between the Shew horn and the Wild Thing. BIG!
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha Commercial Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
Winnipeg wrote:
I just stumbled into this thread. I'm very curious about this new Yamaha. I had been considering a Bobby Shew but the price of these makes them a very attractive option. I'm very limited in what's available for me to test drive so I value well considered opinions very much. Anyone else have any first hand experience and/or perhaps some comparisons between this model and The Bobby Shew, or Wild Thing?
Thanks,

GB
I don't know about the new Yammie, but there is a BIG difference between the Shew horn and the Wild Thing. BIG!


No kidding!

Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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Winnipeg
Regular Member


Joined: 05 Oct 2018
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Can you gentlemen expand a bit on the differences between the Shew and the Wild Thing? Thanks.
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7004
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winnipeg wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Can you gentlemen expand a bit on the differences between the Shew and the Wild Thing? Thanks.


I've only played the Yamaha twice, I think. It was the same instrument both times and it has been quite a few years ago. But, here is what I recall.

The Shew design had a very odd blow that I have not come across in any other trumpet. I didn't play it long enough to be able to quantify how or why it was different, just that it was rather odd. I didn't like it at all, since I didn't understand it. I came from years of playing a very good Benge 5X, which is a very cylindrical design, not the conical Shew design. Maybe, that is what made the difference?

The Wild Thing I had, at the time, was also conical in a way, but didn't feel foreign to me when I first played it. It simply felt more capable than my Benge in the same tactile language, if you will.

The Yamaha never seemed to project well. You must understand that both the 5X Benge and WT are supreme trumpets when it comes to projecting and space-filling dominance. I'm not talking about laser beam projection. I mean filling every cubic inch of space in the room, no matter the size of the venue. Consequently, the Wild Thing player never has to play the horn to anywhere near its full dynamic potential. In fact, when it comes to amateur ensembles like I played in at the time, I was always focused on holding back my sound. This was especially hard on the Benge, because it was something of a Bull-in-the-China-closet. The Wild Thing was easier of my two trumpets to play at the lowest dynamic levels. I imagine the Yamaha was easier still, but I don't really know.

In those years, my playing was probably 95% solo work, so my Wild Thing was superb and the Shew Yamaha wasn't even in the same league. That is why I never wanted to play it for more than 10 seconds at a time.

The MkII version of the Wild Thing that I play now is perhaps not so capable an instrument, but it is much more friendly and accessible to more players. I like that it fits into a section of standard trumpets more easily and comfortably. I like that it has lost none of its luxurious sound. I think the new copper bell and tighter lead pipe give it more character and texture than the original version.

As I said, I haven't played the Shew Yamaha in years, so perhaps my opinion would be different now. I certainly have grown as a player, since those days, and have experienced even more varied designs, so who knows?
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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Winnipeg
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Joined: 05 Oct 2018
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian, thanks for your very helpful thoughts. Would you mind giving your impressions of the differences between the original WT and the Mk II? You said the current model is not as capable but easier to play. You also commented that it fits easier in the section. I'm still working to develop my range and endurance after 40 years away from the horn and user friendly might be helpful to me. As well, after hearing some recordings of a recent amateur big band gig, my sound can be fuller and more prominent in the section. I very much enjoy my older WT but I'm not opposed to potential change.
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7004
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winnipeg wrote:
Brian, thanks for your very helpful thoughts. Would you mind giving your impressions of the differences between the original WT and the Mk II? You said the current model is not as capable but easier to play. You also commented that it fits easier in the section. I'm still working to develop my range and endurance after 40 years away from the horn and user friendly might be helpful to me. As well, after hearing some recordings of a recent amateur big band gig, my sound can be fuller and more prominent in the section. I very much enjoy my older WT but I'm not opposed to potential change.


The original spec WT has, in my opinion, the largest performance envelope of any Bb trumpet I've come across. That was the purpose behind the design. That said, it takes a pretty accomplished player to make the most of it. It's sort of like a fighter jet. It will amaze you with all that it can do, but you have to be able to pilot the thing or you may just crash.

The new horn has a more narrow projection pattern (90 degrees vs 160 degrees), is a bit harder to change tonal colors and may not dominate an ensemble as easily, but it lands each note more positively and resonates fully at lower dynamics. So, it balances with other horns in a section with less effort to under-play.

The copper bell has a slightly different sound than the brass versions and I think it has a more interesting character. I hear more midrange frequencies in the timbre along with the full bottom frequencies that make the Wild Thing famous. I really like the sound.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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Winnipeg
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Joined: 05 Oct 2018
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again. I like your fighter jet analogy. While I haven't yet "crashed", I'm definitely flying without the afterburner at this point in my redevelopment as a player.

I use the #2 slide. For me, it's not quite as easily lit up which is good for the varying contexts that I play in. I'm occasionally getting some "real" D's and E's above high C and the horn is clearly more than willing when I line things up right. It'll still be some time before those notes will be within my usable range. My goal is not to play in lead territory but to be able to truly "own" high C, D, E. Nice thing about retirement is that I have the time to work on things.

Your experience is welcome. Feel free to share any and all trumpet wisdom.
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