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knatterbock Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 183
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: SIGNATURE 2000 SERIES trumpet |
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Who made this trumpet? Is it a pro model? What's a fair price for a used instrument?
Regards |
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michael manthey Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 1116
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I've brought this thread to Tony Scodwell's attention. I'm sure he'll get to this as time permits. Unless I'm mistaken Tony was very instrumental in the design of this line for the DEG company.
Stay tuned. Very nice trumpets btw _________________ Michael Manthey
Scodwell USA Trumpets
Stomvi USA FLEX Mpc
Bob Reeves Mpc's
Kanstul Mpc's
'The Brass Spa' Practice Mute
www.ultrapureoils.com
Maynard Ferguson BBN Band |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1954
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: DEG Signature 2000 trumpets and flugels |
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Thanks to Michael for bringing this to my attention.
Don Getzen's company DEG [Donald E. Getzen] was started after Don left the old Getzen company. I believe he was the sole remaining Getzen family member involved in the company. Anyway, Don started DEG making some of the best marching brass in the business and representing Wilson in the N. American market. Horns [other than the Swiss Wilson's] were being made four miles down the road at his brother Bob's place, Allied Band Instruments which also had a very good repair school going there as well. I had played one of Jerry Callets trumpets which I knew were being made at Allied [at that time] and felt there was the potential to develop some really good horns. Bells were coming from Kiefer in Elkhart and the valves were being made there. Bauerfeind supplied the valves for the flugels and piccolos that I had a lot of involvement with and Don was willing to have me visit the plant many times and continue development on the whole line. The two trumpet models that came out of all of this were the Signature 2000 LA and NY models. The LA had a thinner, larger diameter bell similar to what Monette was getting from Kiefer at the time and the NY had a 25 gauge 37 type bell. A lot were made in tuning bell configuration and silver plating or a gold epoxy lacquer was standard. They played really well in spite of the suspect fit of the valves. Valves were not lapped in, only tumbled in a jewelry machine to smooth them out. Centerless ground blanks came sized to their specs [monel] and assembled at Allied. Control could have been better in so far as the end gaps were concerned, but as I said, they played pretty well in spite of all this. The horns sold well in Europe and cornets were quite well received in England. A little tid-bit...no less than William Vachianno picked up one of the four valve piccolos at a ITG and called Don asking to endorse it. I have his letter proudly hanging in my shop today.
This was probably more information than you really wanted to know, but I would certainly consider one of these horns if it comes up for sale. Chances are it will be cheap as not many people have heard of them. The piccolos and flugels certainly should be considered. Don imported a few flugels direct from Wilson with "Donald E. Getzen Signature Model" on the bell. They aren't the same but do have Bauerfeind valves and play OK.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
"Live In The Studio" by the Tony Scodwell Big Band now at CD Baby
Out now from Hal Leonard, "Big Band Classics featuring Tony Scodwell"
Both CD and "Big Band Classics" available at ITG |
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rolling360 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 1346 Location: Belfast, Ireland
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I had both the LA and NY model. They were great horns. If I ever run across either, I would buy them in a heartbeat.
Don gave me the 2 horns to try and if I liked them then we would talk dollars. We came to terms and I did purchase both the LA and NY. He also gave me one of the first if not the first Signature 2000 Flugelhorns which I still have.
He is a good man and puts his name on quality products. |
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knatterbock Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 183
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tony,
thank you for presenting the historic background! The horn plays extremely well...better than any of my instruments....and I have a lot...great slotting....great tone in all registers.
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ShawnMAnderson Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Posts: 17
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Yes: these are excellent. I've been playing my Signature 2000 Custom Series Bb trumpet , the NY model with tuning slide prototype SN:F2765 (with 65 stamped on other parts) exclusively for 27 years now. I've presumed it was the 27th made in 1965, but have no idea and was told by my mentor, Walter Blanton also of Las Vegas, that he'd helped develop it with Tony. I've since removed all of the gold lacquer to expose the raw brass and silver plated the bell with gold-plating on its interior. It looks great and has needed no repairs, even all of the original Monel valve components (except for possibly changing springs) are fast and smooth with good compression. Periodic lava soap has always been used as needed.
Occassionally I visit a well-stocked brass store when traveling through major cities and walkout again without an interest in switching. It plays phenomenally! Based on Tonys' and others strong recommendations, I also purchased the flugelhorn for this series as well as having a mint 4 valve piccolo arriving next week. Again, very pleased to have the set and have only found one other instrument which surpassed my experience (another custom of unknown make and possibly a Boston Bb).
I do believe Tony has stated elsewhere in this forum that these flugels are very similar to his current Scodwell line, with only minor alterations. _________________ 3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S
Last edited by ShawnMAnderson on Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1884
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: |
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is there a difference between the Signature model and the Signature 2000? |
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ShawnMAnderson Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Posts: 17
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | is there a difference between the Signature model and the Signature 2000? |
The "Signature 2000 Custom Series" will clearly state this phrase on the bell. Tony has said elsewhere in this site that DEG did have an earlier Signature, but it was not part of the 2000 line. However, again, Tony is the resident expert: I'm just a huge fan of them.[/img] _________________ 3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S |
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bean_counter Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Posts: 125 Location: Oswego, IL
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: |
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The DEG "Signature" horns - NOT '2000' - were earlier. I played a "signature" shepherd crook cornet in high school; our band director had some left over instrument budget and he always wanted "cornets on cornet parts". He bought a set of the DEG cornets. Late '70's, maybe 1978 or 1979. Different horn than the later 2000 series. _________________ Kevin Mc
Strad 180s37 (07 'True Bach'), Schilke 18 or 18B4
anon OTS Bb Saxhorn, Berliner valves c. 1860
Eclipse cornet (Yellow, Bauerfeind) DW 4B Heritage
Cousnon clairon Bb
'60s Besson tenor horn DW 3 |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1954
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: Signature lineage. |
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Donald Getzen had many "Signature" horns in his line-up with Wiilson and Blessing the major suppliers prior to my involvement which became the "Signature 2000" line of horns. The "Signature 2000" line was made four miles up the road at the Allied Manufacturing plant owned by Donald's brother Bob Getzen in Elkhorn, WI and technically DEG was in Lake Geneva, WI, only four miles down highway H.
The line up consisted of two models of Bb trumpets, the NY and LA. The NY had a 25 gauge bell made by Kiefer on a 37 mandrel and the LA also had a Kiefer made bell which was the same bell Monette was using. Both were two piece design. Some C and Eb-D trumpets were made and the Eb-D was based on a design Dick Akright had made with a cut down Bb. Cornets in Bb and Eb were primarily sold in England and the piccolo three and four valve models were well received worldwide. William Vacchiano asked Donald Getzen if he could endorse the four valve piccolo after playing them at an ITG. The three valve model was something I felt was needed by guys like me who played piccolo in a jazz environment. Both piccolos and my flugelhorn design used Bauerfeind valves which were owned by Wiilson at that time. The flugelhorn design continues today in the Scodwell USA line.
All of these instruments were produced in small numbers and are worth seeking out if you see them for sale. Only 150 of the four valve piccolos were produced for example.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1504 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
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What is Kiefer doing these days? Does he have his own shop? Someone on here or elsewhere once said that Monette had used "Keefer" bells, meaning Brua Keefer and Son. But I know know it was the 21st century KeIfer bells he used. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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To be clear, Kiefer bell makers of Elkhart, IN had no connection to Keefer of Williamsport, PA. For some time Kiefer was the supplier to several manufacturing interests including E.K. Blessing, D.E.G., Monette, even Getzen. It was suggested that Reynold Schilke used Keifer for some of his early trumpets. Our Osmun-Shires custom trumpets and trombones built in Belmont, MA in the 1980's had Keifer bells.
One distinctive feature of Keifer bells is the length wise seam of the stem had no tabs, it is a butt joint. Only where the disc formed flare meets the stem will you see tabs in that seam.
As stated in another thread on the subject of Signature 2000 series trumpets, Kiefer's bell making tools were purchased in the early 1990's by Edwards (Getzen) in order to make trombone bells in-house. Some of of Kiefer's skilled employees move to Elkhorn, WI while some remained in Elkhart, IN and were hire by E.K. Blessing so they could make their own bells in-house. So Kiefer is no more.
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Dennis78 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 673 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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How about the cornets? _________________ a few different ones |
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ShawnMAnderson Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: Short and Long Eb Trumpet |
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For those interested, I've posted several of the published marketing materials and endorsement about these instruments here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1674077822791614
I'll later add detailed images of the versions which I know and also those which I believe Tony had a part in. Hopefully, he'll be able to visually verify more of the design specifics for future owners. (Attaching images is a bit trickier on TH.)
My 30-years of interest in collecting this line led to my current ownership of two horns in his newest line, ScodwellUSA. I bought the Las Vegas (technically 'Standard') SN 0297 and it beats out anything else I've touched - and I've owned it concurrently with over two dozen trumpets (e.g. Bach, Xeno, Bach, French Besson etc.) My other horns sit on stands or in cases, but SN 0297 has taken permanent residence ~2' of my home office computer.
If you aren't familiar with Tony's horns (Signature 2000 or ScodwellUSA), consider becoming so. He isn't a mass producer, but his pricing might make you think so; very reasonable and very inspiring tools. _________________ 3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S |
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BassBoneGuy New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2023 Posts: 3
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hi All,
I just had a Signature 2000 come in to the workshop and it's been fascinating reading all the info about this instrument.
I'm guessing this may be an LA model but not sure so hoping to get some help.
Serial: F3675
Leadpipe has the number: 2098
Would anyone know how much these instruments may be worth these days, wanted to give the customer some interesting info about their horn, looks ike it's being played by a younger beginner (8-9yo) by the looks of the music in the case.
Thanks for your help |
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ShawnMAnderson Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Posts: 17
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yup! That's an LA model. I have a tunable Dizzy LA model and the NY. Should have the larger 5" bell. Same Keifer bell Monette was using at the time. It's a lesser-known pro horn. Exceptional monel valves! Designed by Tony Scodwell. Lucky kid. _________________ 3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S |
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windandsong Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 706 Location: Whitstable, UK
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I bought one for next to nothing years and years ago because it played better than anything else in the shop and there were a lot of different horns there, different brands.
I played the hell out of it for a year or two then it blew up, valves failed but it was great while it lasted.
Would def pick one up again.
G _________________ Bach 180/37
#7 pipe |
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ShawnMAnderson Regular Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Posts: 17
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:29 am Post subject: |
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windandsong wrote: | I bought one for next to nothing years and years ago because it played better than anything else in the shop and there were a lot of different horns there, different brands.
I played the hell out of it for a year or two then it blew up, valves failed but it was great while it lasted.
Would def pick one up again.
G |
Did it not have the monel valves? I played my NY model with the vinyl valves exclusively from 1992-2021 - and it was plenty used when I got it. They are still the best valves I've had had out of the perhaps 60 pro horns I bought/sold. Still have it and the LA Dizzy plus a newer Scodwell which is my go to.
Not all Signature 2000 Custom Series were made equal. Some had a different type of valve with more metal housing == not as good. It appears that the quality tanked later on. I own two early version SN F5265 (LA Dizzy tunable bell) and SN 2765 (NY prototype with tunable bell built by Tony for his friend/my mentor Walt Blanton). Both of those are premium horns - unlike some if the later versions I found while I use to collect the brand. Both are now for sale in that I pretty much play my Scodwell exclusively. _________________ 3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S |
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ldwoods Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 1828 Location: Lake Charles, LA
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Can anybody comment on the 2000 Signature in the key of C? Based on the Bb comments, I would guess the C is also a good horn? _________________ Larry Woods
LDWoods |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1954
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 8:24 am Post subject: Signature 2000 C Trumpets |
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I was involved in all of the DEG Signature 2000 trumpets and flugelhorns. Not being a C trumpet player myself, Don Getzen would bring Walter Blanton along with me to work on the various other pitched trumpets like the Eb trumpet which we "borrowed" a design that Dick Akright had designed. Also, we did some good work on the Eb cornet which was popular in Great Britain brass bands. Walter worked on the C trumpet which turned out quite well with most being silver plated.
Contrary to what was said about the valves, the parts for all of these horns (except the piccolo which used Bauerfeind) were made four miles down the road from DEG at Allied which was owned by Don Getzen's brother Bob. The got monel blanks machined to size, assembled the valves and put them in a jewelry tumbler to "smooth them out" and never lapped them in the casings. The horns I worked on for my friends got the valves lapped in and end gaps set correctly. Allied did many good things but valves weren't one of them. In spite of quality issues the horns played very well. Production was limited for all the models produced and remain very good value today. DEG as a company does not exist any longer after Don Getzen sold it to his partner Mark Schaefer who eliminated horns and concentrated on his Dynasty line of marching percussion instruments before closing the doors for good.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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