Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:44 am Post subject:
Capt.Kirk wrote:
I liked the number 3 much better. The sound seemed more colorful, more life like. The number two did not sound bad but clearly when compared head to head like this the #3 stole the show. It is very much like the difference between an average sounding mass produced model pick your brand and an exceptional playing model of the same brand....The difference does not have to be huge to be clearly heard and appreciated.
As too how a horn sounds behind the bell to the player......That is the worst way to pick a horn because what the artist hears is not what sells the tickets or the CD's or put's people in the seats. What comes out the bell is far more important. I think that too many trumpet players are playing horns that suck because too much is placed on what "they hear behind the bell" if it means that much to ya then have the bell turned back to face you. There is a reason our bells face the audience.
While it is almost a no brainer that if you can back off a horn a medium bore is easier to play hours on end. The problem though is that if all things are equal and in this case they are rarely does a medium bore horn sound as good as a larger bore horn.
In fact what I hear as my voice through bone condition I like and think is pleasing. What I sound like when recorded and played back I think is dreadful. TO my ear's I sound like a Silver Back Ape with a fantastic vocabulary. Other people insist that I sound pleasing and am a fantastic public speaker but I try hard not to watch video's or listen to recording of myself if I can help it! I do not like my sound but audience do. There is a similar disconnect between what the audience hears and what a player hears. You see a similar affect in pitchers that can not hit visual they have a disconnect between the image of the ball as they throw it compared to the image of the ball coming at them.
This is also why I tell people to record themselves trying out horns if they can not take another trumpet player with them. This way they get some time on the audience side. Who cares if it sounds like the Trumpets of Heaven behind the bell if it sounds like a PVC pipe and funnel trumpet out front!
WildThing,Celabration, CarolBrass's large bore 72 and 37 bell models, CG models, Kanstul Col 103, Conn .485 bore Cornet's, Bessons 2-20 .464 bore, now the A9 #3 bore all sound fantstic and out class there smaller bore equals in front of the bell.
While I agree that Trent sounds better on the #3 on these recordings, I respectfully disagree with many of your conclusions. As has been stated, the better sound may be a function of mouthpiece choice, or it may be a difference in these two individual horns.
I also disagree with the notion that how the horn responds and sounds to the player isn't important. If the horn doesn't feel comfortable and sound right to me it takes away from my musical experience. I won't enjoy it as much, and therefore won't be at my best expressively and creatively.
I realize that Beethoven gave the World a lot of it's best music when he was deaf as a stone and only able to hear it inside his head, but most of us don't have that ability.
I'm also not sure why a horn that sounds good to the player AND to the audience must be mutually exclusive.
I also disagree that large bore horns always sound better. I think it's a matter of individual taste and preference. Didn't most of the great Martin Committee players in the 40s, 50s and 60s play the #2 rather than the #3? What about Chet and Art Farmer?
Isn't the 6310Z a medium-bore horn? I love the way Bobby Shew, Greg Gisbert, and others sound on that horn. Here is Ron Stout playing this medium bore horn.
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 757 Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:12 am Post subject:
Also worth noting is the fact that the Committee that Ambrose Akinmusire chooses to play is a standard #2 .453 bore model and he obviously sounds incredible. The '51 I play is also a medium bore and to me and most listeners who have given me feedback, it sounds just as big as any ML bore trumpet I've ever played. It's already been mentioned that most of the Committees that our musical heroes played back in the 40, 50s, and 60s were the standard medium bore models (with the obvious exception of Chet and later eras of Miles). I actually liked the character of the sound on the Adams .453 model better but do admit that the .468 definitely sounded larger and more free blowing. _________________ Ray Callender
http://musicians.allaboutjazz.com/raycallender http://www.myspace.com/raycallender
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:04 am Post subject:
Come on! We know the only reason some like medium bores is because they are weak and underdeveloped players......right? Just like how players that play on small MPs have weak chops and real players use big MPs--right?
I like a small medium shallow, #25 throat MP in my .470 bore trumpet, and I like a deep #13 throated MP in my .415 bore flugel. I like a medium cup MP with a 25 throat in my .453 bore picc. Methinks I like a certain level of resistance, and I wind up matching the MP to the horn until I get the feel I am looking for. I think we all do that.
The question becomes then when Trent has both large and medium bore horns matched to MPs that put the resistance in his comfort range, will there be any real difference in sound? At the extremes, probably. In the middle of the horn at medium volume, maybe not so much......... _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:41 am Post subject:
Blaine, your personal resistance explanation is bang on with my approach to my Bb, my picc, and my flugel. The only exception is my old Conn cornet.
Well said! _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject:
Both horns sound pretty much the same to me, with the first being more like how I like to hear a trumpet sound - lively, with dense core yet ringing tonality.
I would prefer much shorter examples for a better comparison. (excellent playing though).
Really, it's ONLY you who knows, neither the audience or your peers are going to care what horn you have.
In the words of my wife - "sounds like a trumpet to me."
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject:
This Adams comparison reflects the same differences that you would have between A #2 and a #3 Martin Committee. The larger horn just has that it factor. _________________ 47 Martin Committee #3
Buescher lightweight 400 228
Buescher lightweight 400 217
Taylor/Harrelson/MAW
Warburton model 235
Stomvi Mambo #5
Conn constellation 38a cor.
Courtois 301 Orchestra C
Yamaha Custom 9830 pic
Yamaha 731 /Harrelson mod
The verdict is still out on these clips.... The "but" factor is that Trent has already said that he didn't feel the mouthpiece he used on the #2 was right for him yet he preferred that horn.
Time will tell.....
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:34 pm Post subject: medium bore copper a9
just to dredge up an old thread.....i am on trial with a medium bore copper adams a9. so much different than a bach....which i've been specializing in lately. has a lovely tone and the valves are so nice! i need to get used to playing it before i say much about how it plays. just a gorgeous instrument tho. its pretty lightweight...i'm guessing .50 thickness. seems to be laid out for larger hands which is nice. no vertical braces. definitely has a smokey quality to the tone.
Someday I'll have to try these. I used to play a #2 bore Martin Committee. Its' sound was dark and buttery. I could get the Miles sound when I backed off and chilled out.
The second of Trent's recordings is closer to this sound. I'm not sure how close the Adams A9 sound is to the actual Martin Committee. I'll have to check it out. Perhaps, some of the darker sounding bells than yellow brass should be considered. Although, my Martin was all yellow brass. I think everything was yellow brass on mine, but the brass color seemed to be less yellow and have more copper in the color.
Anyone currently playing an Adams A9? What do you think?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Adams a9 .453 and .468 trumpets side-by-side video
TrentAustin wrote:
Here's a brief low-fi clip of the new Adams A9 Trumpet which is modeled after a Martin Committee. The two horns are the same thickness in bell (.50) and the only major difference is the bore size. The #2 bore is a medium (.453) and the #3 a large (.468). The #3 bore is a prototype and the #2 is reserved for someone. I do have these on order coming in shortly from the factory.
I would definitely choose the horn you play as number two; bigger warmer sound, more open. Besides that my ears seem to perceive that the first horn is a tiny tiny tiny bit not that well tuned......But that´s me and my hearing isn´t what it used to be.
Also it could be that the second horn is your piece of cake, while the first is not. For some mysterious reason
O dear now I see that this is a very old thread......So much for that
but I won´t delete my post. Better look out better next time. _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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