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Flugelhorn intonation


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ShawnMAnderson
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Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Flugel intonation Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
When I was playing on my (very good) Couesnon, it got me to thinking what I could do to make it better in so far as clarity of sound and yes, intonation. With the backing of Don Getzen and his DEG company, I put some prototypes together with the lower tuning branch design I felt would help with intonation. The Couesnon had too much pull on the leadpipe to play where it needed to be and I surmised adding length after the valves instead of before might be an advantage there. Don had a mandrel copied from the Selmer Clark Terry played on for many years and we started with that. I always loved the Besson flugel so the leadpipe was similar to that. The lower tuning branch (primary tuning) was quite difficult to get correct and when the two lengths of the inner and outer slides weren't correct, intonation got wacky. It took several permutations before it came together and the result was not only fabulous intonation, the sound quality cleared up dramatically while keeping the rich, dark quality I wanted. Bauerfeind valves were used and DEG produced these horns for a few years before deciding to not make brass instruments any longer. I changed the valves to Kanstul made Bessons and gave the tuning branch an inner and outer configuration which helped even more which is now the Scodwell USA flugelhorn I produce. Check out the video on my website with Rocky Lombardo and me.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com



Tony,

I finally landed my hands on your Signature 2000 Custom Series flugel. Wonderful recommendation; a real pleasure to play! It's nice to also have Walt Blantons' NY Bb with tunable bell prototype alongside it. I'm now looking out for the each of the other models from the 2000 series.

Do you recommend any specifically designed types of mouthpieces for this flugel/your current line of Scodwells'?

I'm playing on an old small letter flugel bach 3C which came with it. I play a small letter Vincent bach 1.5C on my Bb and am chiefly interested in a wide open warm flugel sound.

[Sidebar, but I'm unclear, what was Walts' involvement with the Bb tunable prototype? I've presume he simply provided another opinion on pre/post playability such as Rocky did on your Scodewell Flugel. Yes/No? Have you any rough idea on how many of each of the 2000 series models were made?...of the flugels, C, Eb,, LA, NY and NY Bb tunable bell prototypes?]

Thanks for all the years of refining your craftsmanship. I've great appreciation for well-built tools.
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3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S
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nieuwguyski
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 2335
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reading the original post a couple of years ago and starting a reply... which I deleted. I didn't have anything constructive to add.

And I still don't, but I have a Calicchio Copper flugelhorn with one bad note. In my case it's tuning C, which is sharp. I still pull the leadpipe out well over an inch to tune, but not nearly as much as it takes to get third-space C down to pitch. Third-space open C is so flat, using the 2-3 alternate fingering (which is usually lower) is actually higher.

I've tried shallow mouthpieces, deep mouthpieces, a custom French-taper leadpipe... nothing has cured the flat tuning C.

But I've learned to deal with it and at this point it's the devil I know. And it sounds amazing.
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ShawnMAnderson
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nieuwguyski,

Thanks for sharing that you've got a little bugger too. (You probably saved me a lot needless effort.

I too have two neighboring notes that I'm trying to bring down somehow (E and a little more of F). The second tuning slide feature was quite helpful in tightening everything else up. It's not extreme, and wouldn't warrant effort except that my Snark tuner shows everything tightly in tune from bottom F# to the third F. Blessed curse for being such an imperfect perfectionist.

The first slide has no impact and is tough to pull back in.. So perhaps it's as you stated, it'll be my small friend to think of. Overall, it's still immaterial on a matter of purchase.

Shawn
_________________
3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S
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Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1954

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject: Flugel mouthpieces Reply with quote

I appreciate the comments on my involvement with the DEG Signature 2000 horns and once again, they are tremendous instruments and worth searching out, especially the flugel and piccolos.

As for mouthpieces, Bach flugel pieces work really well with an 18 throat instead of the standard 22 throat. I opened up some 3CFL's over the years and when I went past an 18 drill throat, the quality fell off. In my experience the 18 drill size throat is optimum improving the tone quality without disturbing the intonation. That said, I played the medium deep Warburton 4 FL which I used for years (with my rim) before changing to a similar Legends mouthpiece. Very deep flugel mouthpieces were not suitable for what I did as it always seemed you picked up a cold flugel and were playing unisons with flutes. A slight compromise in sound for security with intonation was best for me.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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ShawnMAnderson
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Flugel mouthpieces Reply with quote

Tony,

Thanks kindly. Just what needed to know. Really enjoying the Eb today.
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3 x SCODWELL (Boston, Custom Standard & Flugel)
4 x DEG SIGNATURE 2000 (4-Valve picc, NY Prototype, LA Dizzy & Eb)
2 x 1920's & 1940's NY Bach Strad's
5 x C Strad's 229/239/236G/ C Spada
1 x Kanstul 1600S
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