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Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly



 
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jicetp
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:53 am    Post subject: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly Reply with quote

Hi

What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :

- cheaper than Bach
- same price range than Bach
- more expensive than Bach

The obvious answer would be : Bach !

Bu tI am curious to know what other makes can be used .

Thanks
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Dan in Sydney
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, you can try all sorts of others like Yamaha and Shires and B&S, but in the end, just like Arnie, you’ll be BACH!
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one builds a better Bach than Bach.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly Reply with quote

jicetp wrote:
Hi

What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :
...

--------------------------
For amateur (non-paying) use, I think it's more the player than the instrument - except in the case of a very 'special purpose' instrument. If the sound is acceptable, and the right notes are played at the right time - that's 99% of what's desired.

In a full-time salaried pro group, there's more going on than just matching the sound. The 'group think' might have its own demands on what equipment is used.

Has anyone in an amateur group been asked to switch from their 'standard mainline' equipment for 'sound quality' concerns?

Jay
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Evinerate
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First horns to come to mind are definitely Yamaha (similar copy of a Bach, duh) and then B&S who produces horns that are copies of a Bach.
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Nixer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a Holton T101?

Until yesterday I never gave much credence to the "match the sound" thinking, particularly in amateur groups. Then I showed up at church to play with my brother's old 37 Strad, whereas I usually use my Getzen 3051. The other trumpet player has a 37 Strad, maybe 7 or 8 years newer than my brother's. I always thought his Strad and my Getzen matched pretty well, but it was surprising to me how much better the two Strads matched. Noticeable even to an amateur hobbyist like me. I don't know that I liked the sound itself better, but they certainly blended better.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In what country?

In the US, just about all pro orchestras use a C as their main axe. So asking about a Bb to use in an orchestra in the US likely means not a pro orchestra; so it probably doesn't matter what you use.

I can't respond to your post if you live outside the US.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I owned once a B&S 3137, a Bach 180-37 copy but I was disappointed in the the way she played and sounded, they say 'You'll get what you pay for'...

The Getzen Eterna 900LB early 90's sounds way more like my ol' 180-37 and she plays so much easier that this Getzen made me sell my Bach.
To me and our to conductor a very good instrument for our amateur symphony orchestra
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If want to drive a car that acts like a Ford, buy a ford. For trumpets, its much the same.

If you want something which 'matches' a Bach and is NOT a Bach, then you have a range of options.

First, get a good set of ears, you need to be able to listen and match the other player, and not just with a certain instrument in the hand.

Second, find a horn you like and see if YOU can play in a way which doesn't annoy others. (just like my using a Getzen in a brass band. Howls of indignation, except for the English gent who thought it was better than all those modern garbage Sovereigns) (and I was stubborn and played with a rich sound, good intonation and thin nasty high A's.)

Third, don't tell them its not a Bach. Or, tell then it IS a Bach and the stamping was a 'factory error'. As were the Bauerfind valves etc.

cheers

Andy
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly Reply with quote

jicetp wrote:
Hi

What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :

- cheaper than Bach
- same price range than Bach
- more expensive than Bach

The obvious answer would be : Bach !

Bu tI am curious to know what other makes can be used .

Thanks


Bach is making some great horns right now. Yamaha is also common in orchestral circles. I think my Larson C “out-Bachs” a Bach, but that is my opinion. There are a number of good options these days.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming you have a Bach Strad with a 37 bell in mind. If so, some alternatives:

Less expensive? French Besson, Benge 3X, Getzen Canadian Brass model, Sonare 801/901

Same price range? Yamaha Xeno 8335II, Bach Strad 43, Shires Q10, Getzen 3050

More expensive: Yamaha 9335II New York, Bach AB190 Artisan, Shires A/AF/AZ/CVP, Van Laar B4, Blackburn L2, Edwards X-17, Harrelson Summit 1/1, Larson GFT Epiphany or Poper model

Edit: As others have said, the best way to get a Bach-like sound is to play a Bach. I love mine. Having said that, I’ve never played in a section where all 3 (or 4) trumpet players used the same model horn, whether we were playing on Bb, C, cornet or Eb; that generally wasn’t a problem. The player and the mouthpiece he/she uses both have a major influence on how a horn sounds.

I’ve simply listed some of the horns I am familiar with that I find to be similar to a Bach 37, and others that are most definitely not Bach 37 “clones,” but have worked very well in a section with Bachs.
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