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jicetp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 987
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:53 am Post subject: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly |
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Hi
What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :
- cheaper than Bach
- same price range than Bach
- more expensive than Bach
The obvious answer would be : Bach !
Bu tI am curious to know what other makes can be used .
Thanks |
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Dan in Sydney Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 257 Location: Sydney, Australia
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:05 am Post subject: |
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No one builds a better Bach than Bach. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3275 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly |
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jicetp wrote: | Hi
What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :
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For amateur (non-paying) use, I think it's more the player than the instrument - except in the case of a very 'special purpose' instrument. If the sound is acceptable, and the right notes are played at the right time - that's 99% of what's desired.
In a full-time salaried pro group, there's more going on than just matching the sound. The 'group think' might have its own demands on what equipment is used.
Has anyone in an amateur group been asked to switch from their 'standard mainline' equipment for 'sound quality' concerns?
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Evinerate Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 Posts: 154
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:37 am Post subject: |
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First horns to come to mind are definitely Yamaha (similar copy of a Bach, duh) and then B&S who produces horns that are copies of a Bach. |
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Nixer Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 129
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Maybe a Holton T101?
Until yesterday I never gave much credence to the "match the sound" thinking, particularly in amateur groups. Then I showed up at church to play with my brother's old 37 Strad, whereas I usually use my Getzen 3051. The other trumpet player has a 37 Strad, maybe 7 or 8 years newer than my brother's. I always thought his Strad and my Getzen matched pretty well, but it was surprising to me how much better the two Strads matched. Noticeable even to an amateur hobbyist like me. I don't know that I liked the sound itself better, but they certainly blended better. |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2157 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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In what country?
In the US, just about all pro orchestras use a C as their main axe. So asking about a Bb to use in an orchestra in the US likely means not a pro orchestra; so it probably doesn't matter what you use.
I can't respond to your post if you live outside the US. |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 649 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I owned once a B&S 3137, a Bach 180-37 copy but I was disappointed in the the way she played and sounded, they say 'You'll get what you pay for'...
The Getzen Eterna 900LB early 90's sounds way more like my ol' 180-37 and she plays so much easier that this Getzen made me sell my Bach.
To me and our to conductor a very good instrument for our amateur symphony orchestra _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2660 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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If want to drive a car that acts like a Ford, buy a ford. For trumpets, its much the same.
If you want something which 'matches' a Bach and is NOT a Bach, then you have a range of options.
First, get a good set of ears, you need to be able to listen and match the other player, and not just with a certain instrument in the hand.
Second, find a horn you like and see if YOU can play in a way which doesn't annoy others. (just like my using a Getzen in a brass band. Howls of indignation, except for the English gent who thought it was better than all those modern garbage Sovereigns) (and I was stubborn and played with a rich sound, good intonation and thin nasty high A's.)
Third, don't tell them its not a Bach. Or, tell then it IS a Bach and the stamping was a 'factory error'. As were the Bauerfind valves etc.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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J-Walk Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Orchestral Trumpet - Bach friendly |
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jicetp wrote: | Hi
What Bb trumpets could be matching Bachs in an Orchestral setting :
- cheaper than Bach
- same price range than Bach
- more expensive than Bach
The obvious answer would be : Bach !
Bu tI am curious to know what other makes can be used .
Thanks |
Bach is making some great horns right now. Yamaha is also common in orchestral circles. I think my Larson C “out-Bachs” a Bach, but that is my opinion. There are a number of good options these days. _________________ Jason Rahn
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Burbank Benge MLP 3X+
Adams A5
Larson Brasswerks “Reese” Model C
Schilke P5-4 picc
Courtois 154 flugel
A few mouthpieces that fit my face and horns |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 1990 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm assuming you have a Bach Strad with a 37 bell in mind. If so, some alternatives:
Less expensive? French Besson, Benge 3X, Getzen Canadian Brass model, Sonare 801/901
Same price range? Yamaha Xeno 8335II, Bach Strad 43, Shires Q10, Getzen 3050
More expensive: Yamaha 9335II New York, Bach AB190 Artisan, Shires A/AF/AZ/CVP, Van Laar B4, Blackburn L2, Edwards X-17, Harrelson Summit 1/1, Larson GFT Epiphany or Poper model
Edit: As others have said, the best way to get a Bach-like sound is to play a Bach. I love mine. Having said that, I’ve never played in a section where all 3 (or 4) trumpet players used the same model horn, whether we were playing on Bb, C, cornet or Eb; that generally wasn’t a problem. The player and the mouthpiece he/she uses both have a major influence on how a horn sounds.
I’ve simply listed some of the horns I am familiar with that I find to be similar to a Bach 37, and others that are most definitely not Bach 37 “clones,” but have worked very well in a section with Bachs. |
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Linda Regular Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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In Australia we don't get a choice really. Bach and Yamaha are everywhere. So all orchestral players tend to have one -or the other-so on an Australia wide testing basis-these two do blend in that setting. So maybe Yamaha?
I bought a schilke in the US. Totally not blending at all! More than I anticipated. But I don't play orchestral any more so its my little adventure. My section members are not angry as far as I know-but there's time yet. Maybe they will reach out and buy Schilke now? _________________ Linda
B6L Schilke |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I played trumpet (non-Bach) in secondary school (All State), college (UNT) and the service in orchestral, other classical, concert bands and big bands. Same horn, same mouthpiece and never was asked to change equipment.
FWIW. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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