Rudy Muck 17C has completely changed my playing...

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

I'm a comeback player, with a distance to go... but I've found that the Rudy Muck 17C mouthpiece has completely changed the way I play.... I play a lot more easily, less blowing, less pressure... easy upper... better slotting...

It sure would have been nice to have had this years and years ago...

I wonder if anyone has had a similar experience with this?

Has anyone been able to compare the original with the Legends copy? Or, any other copy? How do they compare? What is the 16S like?

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 am Post subject:

Jake, in which ways/parameters do you think influenced that? Thanks.
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jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject:

Interesting, thanks.
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Tobylou8 · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Posts: 157

I have a RM 17C and my experience was not the same. I just didn't like it. I'm sure it was the "cheater" high note mpc of the day. It came with a Conn 40B Vocabell I bought. I do love my JET-TONE Custom Model 1B and it's a "cheetah" to some. The 17C is big and heavy too!

JeffM729 · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 am Post subject:

The Bach 10 3/4CW and 10 3/4EW are very similar to the Rudy Muck 17C

They were originally the 17C1 and 17C2, which makes some suspect they were derived from the Muck 17C.

You might try those out.

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

Tobylou8 · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Posts: 157

Maybe I'll revisit it. At the time I got it, I didn't want to change anything. Maybe now I can give it a whirl!

Claude1949 · Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject:

deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

boog · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247

When I was a kid (3rd Grade) my parents signed me up with a private teacher, as there was no school program where I attended until 9th grade. My teacher turned out to be a former circus trumpet player who actually DID "run away from home and join the circus". He was a fabulous player, and a great instrument tech, also...anyway, he started me on a Rudy Muck 17C, if my memory serves me correctly (I know it was a Rudy Muck).

By the time I reached the 7th grade, he had me belting out high C's and above, and I had decent technique and reading skills, so he was also a good teacher...then I hit high school.

My high school band director was also a former pro trumpet player, and also a great guy and a big influence on me. BUT, when he saw the Rudy Muck piece, he had, as we used to say in the South, a "hissy fit". He immediately had my parents purchase me a new MV Bach 7C (which I still have, BTW...had it replated a few years ago). My good high register went away for a while, but my tone improved...(this "difference in opinion" lead to some cussing and bickering between my private teacher and my band director, some of which was quite funny years later to me, but that's a story for another time!)

Funny thing, that RM piece disappeared from my case after a few weeks in high school. I guess my director did not want me to succumb to temptation...

Your post about this piece brought back some great memories of two great players that had an enormous influence on me as a kid...thanks!

Dave

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

Does anyone know which mouthpieces have tried to duplicate Rudy Muck's design? I've read that the Bach 10 3/4 CW is very similar... and that Legends makes a 16S that is similar to Muck's design... Others?

jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

Here's an update... if any would like to know...

The Rudy Muck 17C forced me to play much differently... a lot easier and much more fun, for sure. However, this started a serious safari hunt and experiment... I am sure there are other mouthpieces out there, maybe more sophisticated and up-to-date... but my embouchure has completely changed... I am much more relaxed, the tone is clear, the slurring is clean and the slotting effortless... But my chops have adjusted to the new style, and though I still enjoy the 17C, it started to feel just a little small (though I'm not sure if the sizes are much different).... I have found that the 19C is just right (said Goldilocks) without any question... I've got an old beat up original... not a looker... but I have never been able to make the horn sound as good as it does now... I don't want to sound boastful at all... I am just excited because I love the sound of the trumpet so much as you all do... This really opens up a new window for me... I tried the Bach 10 3/4 CW which I'm fairly certain is a Rudy Muck 19C copy... It plays okay, but there is something that seems magical about the 19C that the Bach seems to lack... Okay... that's enough... I just wanted to share the end of the story... Until the next safari....

gabriel127 · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject:

This relates to my age-old assertion, for which I am constantly flamed on the trumpet boards, but I'll say it again:

My assertion is that putting beginning trumpet students on 3C mouthpieces is short-sighted, in the case of band directors who push this size, selfish, and generally speaking, lunacy, which is unfair to the unknowing students.

The reason that teachers put students on these big 3C mouthpieces is that it can hide a lot of problems and make the student sound better. That makes the teacher look better, so it's self-serving on the teacher's part. If the band director told his trumpet section, I want you all on 3Cs, which is often done, again it is self-serving, but in either case, the teacher of the band director, it's an injustice to the student.

The reason it's an injustice is that by putting them on a bigger mp and getting them to sound better, this is not solving the embouchure problems that the student had in the first place, it only masks them. But these students will plateau and they will be one of the many whose range tops out at a high C or D and they envy the lucky ones who have the right tooth and jaw structure and naturally can play high right from the get-go. 99.9% of the ones who aren't as lucky will quit the trumpet after high school thinking, "I never had the lip for it."

Beginners need to play 3Cs like they need a hole in the head. Here's the thing: If a student is started out on a 7C or a 10.5C, they might not sound as good at the outset, but the thing about the smaller diameter mouthpieces is that they have more of a chance of forcing the player to play more correctly and efficiently and sometimes this just takes time. Our OP just experienced this with the Rudy Muck in a matter of two days.

Just take a look at the dimensions of a lot of the commercial players' signature mouthpieces and see how small they are. A good general rule is that a player should play with the smallest diameter that they can pull off rather than the largest.

And here's another reason why starting beginners on a 3C is an injustice: It's very difficult to transition down to a small mouthpiece from a larger one. Going from small to large is easy, but the goal more often is to go smaller. So all of these students who were put on 3Cs are going to have a heck of a time going smaller later on and it just gives them one more reason to give up on the whole thing.

The old fallacy that bigger is better has endured from the dark ages until today and I don't think classical players will ever get off of their 1, 1.25, 1.5C mouthpieces. OK, flame away!

veery715 · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject:

In his Balanced Embouchure Jeff Smiley discusses some success experienced when students go to a smaller mouthpiece which sounds like your story here. I'd check it out.
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jake50 · Regular Member Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Posts: 54

Wayv · New Member Joined: 08 Nov 2016 Posts: 2

Well it's another 15cm snow so good day to Play and Post.
I have 3 Rudy Muck mouthpieces from yr's ago . All cornet cushion rims 19c , 10, 10 1/2A
My Conn 28A has never seen much use , was thinking of searching for a new mouthpiece. I figured the best mouthpiece might be the one you own already ,when you have a drawer full. I took out the 10.5A and it suits the Conn beautifully for my face. The 19c looks so small it must be for one lip LOL.
Regarding mouthpiece size's in general. I was trying settle on my Stork 3B from the drawer in my trumpets nice tone and flexibility as I figured 16.5 is about my right cup diameter . I tried the Stork 2B gold top and wow it's about learning to play relaxed and actually feeling the lips do some work with that one. I'm now playing a Giardanelli 7c on the trumpet on the Kanstul chart is very much Bach 3d or 3d . Bought a Conn 6B on the bay recently and I'm getting good range and tone with the 7c .
FWIW I'm more the Chet school of playing where tone and shape the phrase is king and playing relaxed is way to get there.