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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: Horn needs frequent polishing |
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Hello, my horn is silver plated and less than a year old. Every time I polish it, it stays nice for just a few days, then looks like it needs polishing again. It develops that red stuff (I forget what it is called) on the bell and it all the crevices. It’s pretty agaonizing that my horn is new and never really looks clean, despite the times I give it a bath and polish every few months.
Could this have something to do with the room I keep my horn in? Possible the polish I use? Is this normal?
Thanks,
CJ |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2611 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:54 am Post subject: |
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What's the brand? _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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jrd19580 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2016 Posts: 56 Location: Racine, Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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I will be watching this thread with great interest as that is my one frustration with Silver Horns!
John _________________ Yamaha 8310Z
Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn
Yamaha YCR-2330 Cornet |
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ayryq Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 354 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, I last polished my Yamaha in 1995, and it's looked about the same since 1996. Maybe just don't worry about it so much _________________ Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I haven’t seen my silver horns turn red. Although I just read that silver tarnish starts out pink and eventually becomes black.
Tarnish is silver combining with sulfur. Burning fossil fuels adds sulfur to the air. Also cat urine appears to have sulfur based on what happened to my horn after the cat urinated on the case it was in.
You aren’t using a red jewelers cloth to polish your horn are you? If so I recommend you stop as they are abrasive and will remove your silver.
That said, find and use a silver polish that has an anti tarnish component. Tarnishield from 3M has been the standard for a long time.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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adc Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2019 Posts: 119 Location: Elizabethtown PA
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Use a low abrasive wax like Meguiars Class and then periodically wax with a pure wax like Mothers Carnuaba Wax. I use a small square of a clean sponge and buff with a new Microfiber cloth . Use a new sponge each time. _________________ Too many Old Cornets to Count |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I. likewise, have never had any red on my silver horns.
Anyway, if you go over it with Maas Metal Protector, it will polish it and leave a coating which will keep it shiny. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2149 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Do you leave your horn out of the case or in the case?
Mine will tarnish quickly when I leave them out on their stands, but less so if I store them in the case. That said, out of sight, out of mind--I practice more if I see them out by my desk. I'll live with the tarnish.
I use Wright's non-abrasive silver polish maybe two or three times per year--the rest of the time I just wipe them down with a soft cloth whenever I notice the tarnish building up. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6160
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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The pink color is likely due to copper showing through silver:
https://www.finishing.com/184/93.shtml
In other words, either the original silver plate was too thin, or it was worn out by repeated polishing. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Horn needs frequent polishing |
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CJceltics33 wrote: | Hello, my horn is silver plated and less than a year old. Every time I polish it, it stays nice for just a few days, then looks like it needs polishing again. It develops that red stuff (I forget what it is called) on the bell and it all the crevices. It’s pretty agaonizing that my horn is new and never really looks clean, despite the times I give it a bath and polish every few months.
Could this have something to do with the room I keep my horn in? Possible the polish I use? Is this normal?
Thanks,
CJ |
How many times in a year have you polished it? If it were me, I wouldn't have polished it until at least 1 year. If you are using an abrasive silver polish, you have possibly removed the silver and are seeing the copper and/or brass beneath.
Normally, red is not a color one associates with silver tarnish. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have a horn with a brittania silver bell 98.+ pure silver made by Taylor on my Eclipse. It also turns a little red then brown never let it get black. This was due to a cat pissing on a leather couch where I practiced. So it is due to a reaction with silver. It would never happen if I kept in case. After a good cleaning and polish I use spray wax for cars and buff.
Rod |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 972
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I made pouches with drawstrings to hold my silver horns. I never had much of a tarnish issue, but my triple case allows the C and Bb bells to touch resulting in scratches. As long as I was making pouches I thought why not used anti-tarnish fabric? |
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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:26 am Post subject: |
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I always leave my horn out on its stand. I didn’t know that might be a cause.
I’ve only polished it a few times since I got it. It’s a 19037 Bach.
I use Wright’s silver polish, which is like a cream applied with a sponge. What would you suggest for polishing? |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2149 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:39 am Post subject: |
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CJceltics33 wrote: | I always leave my horn out on its stand. I didn’t know that might be a cause.
I’ve only polished it a few times since I got it. It’s a 19037 Bach.
I use Wright’s silver polish, which is like a cream applied with a sponge. What would you suggest for polishing? |
Wright's is fine. Leaving the horn out on its stand in the open air speeds up the tarnishing process. Keeping it in the case will help it stay shiny. But then you might practice less. _________________ Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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ayryq wrote: | Hmm, I last polished my Yamaha in 1995, and it's looked about the same since 1996. Maybe just don't worry about it so much |
Yup.
- Leaving it out on the stand results in more and quicker tarnish. The horns that sit in case stay fine, if it's out a lot (the ones I practice are usually out somewhere) then it tarnishes within a few weeks, in my experience. The environment does contribute to the speed of the tarnish.
- Wrights is fine, though a bit on the abrasive side according to some. 3M Tarnishield is what I've used (occasionall) and it works well and is recommended by many here on TH.
- Repeated polishing - especially with those "polishing cloths" does wear down the silver plate. I have spots on my Yamaha that are worn the brass due to HS polishing (I got over that) and a double case I used back in the day.
- I don't know what the "red stuff" is. Some of my well tarnished instruments (which is most of my silver ones) have a brownish hue in spots, but not red. That might be something else and due to the particular environment it's in. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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scottfsmith Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 472 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I have the same horn-on-the-stand problem with silver plate. I am currently doing an experiment where I throw a bag over the stand when I am done playing, to see if that slows down the rate of tarnishing. I really like having all my horns "at the ready" so don't want to have to keep them in cases, but silver horns don't like direct exposure to the atmosphere. And, some exposed environments are worse than others depending on what's in the air, you and I may have particularly bad ones (I have a fan not too far from mine so lots of air circulation). _________________ Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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JeffM729 Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 441 Location: Parrish, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Now, this is a wild guess and slim possibility, but there is an airborne bacteria known as Serratia Marcescens that is pinkish in color. It could be the cause of your problem.
If it's a Bach Strad, I'd contact them about it. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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JeffM729 wrote: | Now, this is a wild guess and slim possibility, but there is an airborne bacteria known as Serratia Marcescens that is pinkish in color. It could be the cause of your problem.
If it's a Bach Strad, I'd contact them about it. |
I am not challenging your advice, but why do you think Bach will be able to help? |
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