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Couesnon Flugelhorn


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BenH
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: spit valve Reply with quote

junkyt wrote:
Good information! We're slowly but surely filling in the gaps.

I have what I think is a 70's 2155 model, but with a twist. The main spit valve, rather than point up toward the bell, is on the bottom of the pipe, pointing back toward the mouthpiece.

Anyone come across one of these before?


One of Tom Harrell's is set up like this; you can see when he switches to flug for Body and Soul.

https://youtu.be/FNT8SQgY9ds
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenH wrote:
The GR pipe only inserts about an inch, so it's way flat. If it was trimmed there would be no scope for tuning.

No photos at the moment, but the pipes are the same length (I measured the original one as per instructions). The original is dented but I don't believe that's related; although I haven't had the outer pipe scoped, I have shone a flashlight down it and there's a visible ridge all the way around. The internal diameter suddenly decreases about an inch in, but there's no sign from the outside that this happens.

Well, that's beyond me. I was wondering if it were down closer to the ferrule that joins the outer lead pipe to the valve block. Not so. I have not heard of anything like that, either, in any brass instrument, outside of damage to the leadpipe. It is time to sing the brass player's tune to the melody of the William Tell Overture: "To the tech, to the tech, to the tech, tech, tech!"
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BenH
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiofiiipopes wrote:
It is time to sing the brass player's tune to the melody of the William Tell Overture: "To the tech, to the tech, to the tech, tech, tech!"


Ha! Indeed. It's going in on Thursday.

What are the implications (anyone) of replacing the outer pipe with one that would accommodate the GR/Melk leadpipe? Is it going to have any noticeable affect on the playing characteristics or the sound? Also, what would be a likely candidate? I'm thinking maybe a Shew as that was based on a Queenie, but one from a different era I think, so all bets appear to be off...!
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
My Couesnon flugelhorn was playing quite flat with the original pipe or with a GR pipe. Based on suggestions from this forum I sent the horn to Charlie Melk. He got back to me promptly and was quite familiar with the problem. The fix was quite reasonably priced too. I would suggest boxing up the horn and sending it to him.
He will most likely to be familiar with it and can recommend the best solution.
Brian
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BenH
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's a photo of the issue. You should be able to see that there's a step down in diameter. It's really odd. The smaller diameter appears necessary to hold the original pipe securely but then, what's the point of an inch of larger diameter?! Like I said, no signs externally that that happens.


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FrankM
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the 1st valve is out of alignment. Does it need a thinner top pad?

Cheers, Frank
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BenH
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrankM wrote:
Looks like the 1st valve is out of alignment. Does it need a thinner top pad?

Cheers, Frank


Yes, it needs a full set of new pads, and will be getting them very soon.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: spit valve Reply with quote

BenH wrote:
junkyt wrote:
Good information! We're slowly but surely filling in the gaps.

I have what I think is a 70's 2155 model, but with a twist. The main spit valve, rather than point up toward the bell, is on the bottom of the pipe, pointing back toward the mouthpiece.

Anyone come across one of these before?


One of Tom Harrell's is set up like this; you can see when he switches to flug for Body and Soul.

https://youtu.be/FNT8SQgY9ds


My horn has the same main water key, detailed finger buttons, and COUESNON logo on the bell.
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trumpet173
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject: My Q Reply with quote

Good thread, and I feel like I should chime in as my flugel for the last 15 years is a Couesnon from 1923 (according to the pineapple grenade).

I have a new flugel coming my way and I've been toying with the idea of selling my Couesnon... I've had multiple people interested and I'm getting offers above my asking price. It's starting to make me second guess my decision. Am I gonna miss it? If I hang onto it for a few more years it'll be 100 years. My wife is telling me I should just hang onto it although I can't see playing it much with the new horn I'm about to get. But who knows... It is cool to have a piece of history.... I digress

Play on!
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Edwin Jacob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" Reply with quote

777 wrote:
My Couesnon says this on the bell;

COUESNON
PARIS
76xxx
MADE IN FRANCE

On the second valve, on the right side, bottom, there's an;

X


What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?

Is that a model number?

Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.

Edwin Jacob
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" Reply with quote

Edwin Jacob wrote:
What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?

Is that a model number?

Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.

Edwin Jacob

Speculation is about all there is, due to the two fires that destroyed all the records, although somewhere in the middle of this thread is some discussion about that being an initial or marking by someone in final assembly or quality control.

The letter stamped on the second valve casing is definitely not a model number. Aside from any engraving on the bell that might indicate a particular horn to be a "Monopole" or "Conservertoire" model, on some older horns there is a number stamped in the collar of the receiver of the leadpipe. Also further up in the thread are postings of pix of old catalog pages that list model numbers that may correlate to that stamping.
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marbalgo
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" Reply with quote

Edwin Jacob wrote:
777 wrote:
My Couesnon says this on the bell;

COUESNON
PARIS
76xxx
MADE IN FRANCE

On the second valve, on the right side, bottom, there's an;

X


What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?

Is that a model number?

Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.

Edwin Jacob


From another entry of "Voltrane" user on this forum:

The letter on the second valve is the initial letter of the name of the person who was responsible of the “chemise”(the tube where you insert the valves, translated by my Harraps dictionnary as “sleeves”), so that the quality control could give them a “mark” to assess the quality of their work.
M. Rault added that this is a “tradition” (at least in France) among the “pistonniers” (the guys making the valves and the valve block) to engrave their initial letter on the “chemise” (to identify their work). Himself and his apprentices are still doing this on the horns they make (at PGM Couesnon).

Regarding the number on the leadpipe, PGM Couesnon told me it is the model number (of the leadpipe).

Regarding the pineapple (in French "la grenade") it is the year of making.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought it in 1967 at Peppys in NYC $125 including a bomb proof Naugahyde bag.

Couesnon
PARIS
Made in France
63242

B on 2nd valve casing

This is "that"sound horn. Recorded many records and jingles on this great Flugelhorn.
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FujiiFilm
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for bringing back an older thread, but I recently acquired a used Couesnon flugel with the original tag and mouthpiece for $200 (original case was unfortunately an unusable wreck, so it went into the garbage), and wanted to add the info to the growing database here, along with my Selmer Signet, which from what I understand is a Couesnon stencil produced for Selmer.

Couesnon: Model 2155 from original tag

COUESNON (w/ large letter C and C shaped pinky ring)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
790XX

"N" on 2nd valve casing, "47", "Bb" and "A" stamped on leadpipe receiver (nothing stamped on tuning shank itself), 1, 2, 3 stamped on the corresponding valve casings

Signet:
"Signet" engraved on bell

Serial # 35XX stamped on 2nd valve casing
"P" stamped on 2nd valve casing"7" stamped on leadpipe receiver (nothing stamped on tuning shank itself), 1, 2, 3 stamped on the corresponding valve casings
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