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stevenhigbee
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Joined: 11 May 2019
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 Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Gautrot Brevete Flugelhorn c. 1870 bought on ebay |
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I just bought this on Ebay. It will take a couple of weeks to get to the US from France.
Do you think it can be made playable? Or should I look for a spot on the wall to hang it?
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Dennis78
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Made playable? Looks to me like it already is. Although it may be in high pitch and if so tuning to blend in a band today might be a challenge
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like it has a much wider bore than the modern flugel. Flugelhorns originally had very wide bores, but around 1850 they got a lot smaller (Sax may have led that change). This one looks like the older wide-bore style. The valves look worn, it may be hard to play due to leakiness.
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stevenhigbee
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| scottfsmith wrote: | | It looks like it has a much wider bore than the modern flugel. Flugelhorns originally had very wide bores, but around 1850 they got a lot smaller (Sax may have led that change). This one looks like the older wide-bore style. The valves look worn, it may be hard to play due to leakiness. |
Valve leakage is my biggest worry. What really grabbed my attention is that is has the straight passage through the valve block, which I think you can only find currently in the Courtois. I might need to use heavy lube on the valves to make it speak, but I'm hoping it will tell me what the sound was 150 years ago. |
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nieuwguyski
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stevenhigbee
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I got the horn. It sounds like a bugle. The metal has the feel and ring of a bugle. Shouldn't be any surprise--that's what it is--a valved bugle.
There isn't much valve wear. The horn has probably been used dozens of hours--definitely not hundreds or thousands of hours. It's been nothing more than an ornament for most of its 150-year life.
There is a bit of a leak where the bell section joins the body. There are quite a few solder points I will have to desolder to free the bell section. This can't be any more difficult than sweating copper pipe, can it? I haven't done it before with a horn, but plenty of times with plumbing. Unless someone wants to decry me for risking a rare item possibly of historical importance, I'm looking at it like a piece from the crate of ancient bugles my father had saved from his days as leader of a 1950's drum and bugle corps.
The mouthpiece labeled "Couesnon No. 2" has a rim that matches my French horn mouthpiece so closely, I'm going to take it to the machine shop and have it turned and threaded to take the screwed rim from my french horn mouthpiece. |
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| stevenhigbee wrote: |
There isn't much valve wear. The horn has probably been used dozens of hours--definitely not hundreds or thousands of hours. |
If you look at the middle valve you can see three different metal layers. The base is brass, there is a little patch of it in the middle there (yellow). Over that it looks like a thick copper alloy has been laid (copper colored) and on top is a silver layer visible in a few spots, probably nickel I would guess. The fact that nearly all the silver is worn off and the copper is even worn in spots indicates a great many hours of playing.
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stevenhigbee
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| scottfsmith wrote: |
If you look at the middle valve you can see three different metal layers. The base is brass, there is a little patch of it in the middle there (yellow). Over that it looks like a thick copper alloy has been laid (copper colored) and on top is a silver layer visible in a few spots, probably nickel I would guess. The fact that nearly all the silver is worn off and the copper is even worn in spots indicates a great many hours of playing. |
Yes, you are right. The copper coating was so nice and even, I thought it was the top coat, which didn't make much sense. On closer examination, the nickle polishes down to the copper. But the micrometer doesn't actually show any difference within it's range of error.
I've desoldered it, and there are two holes at the adjoining ends of the tubing under the ferrule, both right at the very edges of the ferrule, where the air was leaking out. The ferrule won't completely cover both holes. I'm wishing I had left it alone and patched it with epoxy. I think I can adjust the ferrule to cover one hole, then patch the other with solder.
Where do I measure to determine bore size? |
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| stevenhigbee wrote: |
Where do I measure to determine bore size? |
The standard place is the inside diameter of the 2nd valve slide .. you can also check the other slides. I'm curious what it measures, please put the number here.
I tried a bit of soldering on brass instruments and it gave me renewed respect for professional techs - its not easy!
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stevenhigbee
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Joined: 11 May 2019
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The bore is .450"
The mouthpiece tapers from .406 where it is tight with the outside of the receiver, down to .385" .
The outside of the receiver is .440 and straight.
Does the mouthpiece taper match any standard mouthpiece? |
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