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Eb Soprano Cornet - Mouthpiece and Intonation?



 
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brassmonkey
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Eb Soprano Cornet - Mouthpiece and Intonation? Reply with quote

Hey all,

I am somewhat of a newby to the world of Soprano Eb cornet playing (brass band mostly), but I LOVE the instrument! I've tried a few different mouthpieces like the Wick S, but have actually had the best success with my piccolo trumpet mouthpiece (Bach 7E). I know that isn't necessarily ideal for sound, but it seems to be best for intonation. What do you all use?

Speaking of intonation... wow... insane. This has to be the trickiest instrument i've ever played! (Boosey Imperial)

Cheers,
Josh
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, whatever works and feels (relatively) comfortable will be the right choice for you... and it's different for all of us.

The Imperial you're using belongs to a previous era (the pre-Schilke sop era, if you like) - there's nothing wrong with it as such, but the blow is tighter and intonation more squirrely than the good modern sops (the Schilke really changed the game, but there are a range of different choices now that play great - some even arguably better than the Schilke, but the Schilke raised the bar by so much that it's become the benchmark).


Mouthpieces vary so much between players on the same instrument even - I've seen/known people using everything from a Warburton 1D (honking huge!) down through sensible stuff and into speciality gear like the Wick or Alliance S (both quite narrow and deep), really narrow stuff like Bach 17C's and then guys using screamer-type pieces... there are no hard and fast rules.

Using an older sop the mouthpiece choices of people using the more modern instruments may not necessarily even be relevant - if it works for you, on your instrument, then stick at it and hit the practice.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, intonation is an entirely differenct can of worms on the Eb Cornet. I have a Schilke with a Blackburn leadpipe - and really have to stay ontop of the pitch issueS.

I've settled into using a Curry 3P..

I have found some of the newer models to be much better intonation wise: Blackburn's, Eclipse and Stomvi.. just don't know if I want to fork out the $$.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imperial Soprano owner here, but rarely do I get to play it. I also just picked up a turn-of-the-century French Eb cornet but it's getting rehabbed right now. I like the Curry P, the Curry DC and the Wick S. Depends on what sound you are aiming for.
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a Blackburn sop. I followed some guidance from Jens to approach it kind of like playing picc. So, I use a Wedge 65M or S cup with a very light approach. I use the horn mostly as a solo instrument.
And, yes, sop brings a whole new meaning to intonation. If you try to muscle the horn around like you may get away with on a Bb, it will not treat you well.
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kjt
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Eb Soprano Cornet - Mouthpiece and Intonation? Reply with quote

brassmonkey wrote:
I've tried a few different mouthpieces like the Wick S, but have actually had the best success with my piccolo trumpet mouthpiece (Bach 7E). I know that isn't necessarily ideal for sound, but it seems to be best for intonation. What do you all use?


I spent several years on soprano cornet in a couple different brass bands. I love playing soprano.

I find too that shallower mouthpieces, like your piccolo mouthpiece you mention here, do tend to improve intonation a little, but I pretty much hate the sound they produce for me, so I don't consider them an option for me. I use a medium cup (Wedge 64M), which has a great sound, and intonation is comfortable. Learn to use your slides and some alternate fingerings to help rather than putting the job all on your lips. Also, a consistent air-stream and focused listening is probably more important than whichever mouthpiece you pick when it comes to intonation. Well, I think anyway.

My soprano is by Courtois, which I really like--nice sound and not as many intonation quirks. I also spent years playing a Schilke, but I far prefer the Courtois (for both intonation and sound).

Keith
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ertatta
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

believe it or not, a good ol' yamaha 11B4 or 7C works best for me. I'm also a 7E picc player, but the added cup room seems to compliment the cornet setting that much more.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Eb Soprano Cornet - Mouthpiece and Intonation? Reply with quote

brassmonkey wrote:
Hey all,

I am somewhat of a newby to the world of Soprano Eb cornet playing (brass band mostly), but I LOVE the instrument! I've tried a few different mouthpieces like the Wick S, but have actually had the best success with my piccolo trumpet mouthpiece (Bach 7E). I know that isn't necessarily ideal for sound, but it seems to be best for intonation. What do you all use?

Speaking of intonation... wow... insane. This has to be the trickiest instrument i've ever played! (Boosey Imperial)

Cheers,
Josh


Tricky horn? Sure. Sometimes downright psychic suffering playing one. Lately I´ve become even more convinced that it is important to get a mpc fitting your lips - with regards to the diameter. When I played the soprano part I did it on an Getzen Eterna, mpc Bach 1 1/2 C - smaller was difficult. A Schilke 14B roughly the same diameter but nicer (to my lips)rim. Lyrical sound not too piercing if stepping on the gas. The smoothness of sound is really important, it´s all too easy to produce a sharp razor-like sound quality. So having a " cornetty" attitude is mandatory. There is a pronounced difference betwen Eb trumpet and Eb cornet, sound wise. It is possible to play Eb trumpet in a brassband but this requires a lot of care producing the requested sound; in the long run much better using a soprano/Eb cornet.
I´m not that fond of the newer Schilkes; I find them more demanding in terms of intonation, air etc but I guess this is personal. Mastering one you are awarded with a very pure sound, maybe a little too tiny??
Anyhow: try a mpc which 1)provides enough space for your lips 2)projects a smooth sound 3)helps you up high (above G, top of staff soprano score).
Maybe this helps: https://storkcustom.com/doctor-mouthpiece/
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I subscribe to this "must be cornetty" idea - or rather, now I've got your attention, it's only one of the necessary styles...
Cornetty is not all that often called for in modern literature, but it's pretty much the standard in the old "brown music", focused and sweet (but not edgy) is a critical one and on top of this a huge variety of dynamics are necessary.

And this is part of what makes sop so difficult - what works great in one setting doesn't necessarily in others, so the ability to vary tone/attitude/style all on one piece is a delicate and sometimes frustrating balancing act. Alternatively, one can switch between mouthpieces for changes in attitude, but the difficulties of the instrument make this much more difficult than it might be on bigger horns.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
I'm not sure I subscribe to this "must be cornetty" idea - or rather, now I've got your attention, it's only one of the necessary styles...
Cornetty is not all that often called for in modern literature, but it's pretty much the standard in the old "brown music", focused and sweet (but not edgy) is a critical one and on top of this a huge variety of dynamics are necessary.

And this is part of what makes sop so difficult - what works great in one setting doesn't necessarily in others, so the ability to vary tone/attitude/style all on one piece is a delicate and sometimes frustrating balancing act. Alternatively, one can switch between mouthpieces for changes in attitude, but the difficulties of the instrument make this much more difficult than it might be on bigger horns.


Couldn´t have expressed it better! I agree! "Cornetty" is vague - maybe this is colored by my playing in so different settings, front row cornet and bigband lead.
Added: some day I´ll try to specify what I mean.
In the meantime the essential task is to listen, to accomodate your sound/way of playing to the setting in question!
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Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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robcs
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Bb I was used to a DW 4B, and I tried to use that on the Sop initially. I soon realised that was a mistake. Like ertatta, I've found a Bach 7C gives me the best range and tone. Coincidentally, it's alsonwhat I use on Bb trumpet.
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x9ret
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Dennis Wick S for years on a Schilke. The lower octave on it is flat. Ensure your top G is properly in tune, not your bottom one, which you'd be best using 1&3 fingering for. Best advice I can give is get a tuner and understand which notes there are intonation issue for and adjust accordingly but calibrate your tuning from that top G. In a brass band that's where the front row require your support as it's top C for them. Also be mindful of how various mutes affect your tuning.
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