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garrett Regular Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 28
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: Bach strad roll marks |
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Can anyone tell me a source to get the roll marks replaced on my strad. I have had my horn replated after 25 years of service and it really made the marks light, then I had a accident and I had to get a dent removed from the bell and that made it even lighter. I looked at trying to contact the factory but I cannot locate even an email address.
Thanks
Garrett Carter
251-643-3608
Gcarter1805@gmail.com |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Just a guess, but I wouldn't recommend it, and I doubt that anyone would agree to do it without your accepting it as a 'best effort / no guarantees'.
Getting everything to 'register' in the same location, and with exactly the same font(s) / designs would be a BIG undertaking - especially if you demand the result to look 'factory new'..
As far as future 'collector value', it's likely better to have the markings in 'original' condition even though showing signs or wear and repair.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Roll marks? Are you talking about the bell engraving? _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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garrett Regular Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 28
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. The bell engraving. I am not worried about it being a collectible, I already had it overhauled and replated to keep using it. I just wanted the markings replaced on the bell. And I believe they are rolled on not actually engraved. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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garrett wrote: | Yes. The bell engraving. I am not worried about it being a collectible, I already had it overhauled and replated to keep using it. I just wanted the markings replaced on the bell. And I believe they are rolled on not actually engraved. | or possibly stamped. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | garrett wrote: | Yes. The bell engraving. I am not worried about it being a collectible, I already had it overhauled and replated to keep using it. I just wanted the markings replaced on the bell. And I believe they are rolled on not actually engraved. | or possibly stamped. |
Or laser etched. |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I am curious. Why is it you want to do this? Does the horn play OK? _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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garrett Regular Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 28
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the horn plays fine, It’s simply simply for looks and because I want the horn to still have its identifiable markings. It’s just for warm and fuzzy feelings and because I just want it |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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The marking are made with a “roll stamp” and they are pretty deep. If yours have been buffed out to the point of wanting to do it again, I would say your metal is too thin to do it. The only place that would have the roll stamp is Bach, and then it would have to the one from 20 years ago. I’d say give up on the idea _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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starkadder Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 542
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Why not replace the bell? |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am Post subject: |
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I do not believe Bach roll-stamps that anymore. They have a laser engraver now in the engraving room that produces a variety of bell crests including standard. The odds are it would not align.
Additionally, the horn is already replated. This is something that should be done before plating, as the plating will be destroyed within the marks and thus the crest will be obviously cut in after the fact. The end appearance would, I suspect, be other than you have in mind.
As all that buffing will have thinned the bell, it should play a little different than new, so a replacement bell might be a disappointment in a more important way which is how it plays.
You could find an engraver and have the bell hand worked - presumably adding some detail when paying that sort of cost, but keep in mind that working the metal will potentially alter its characteristics and again impact how the horn plays (or worse, it will be too thin for this and fail).
Its your horn to do with as you please - I wouldn't mess with it.
In the end, the audience doesn't hear what the horn looks like. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:07 am Post subject: |
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I think treating it like an old friend, worn down in some places, but still faithful to your mission of making music, and deserving of some respect for having clung to you all this time, is the way to approach this. Love it for its imperfection. As it loves you. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:13 am Post subject: |
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My Strad, made in the last 5 years or so according to the serial, is laser engraved. Much lighter and harder to read than my previous '90's Strad I used to have. Kind of disappointing, but the new one plays better... |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3630 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:20 am Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: | The marking are made with a “roll stamp” and they are pretty deep. If yours have been buffed out to the point of wanting to do it again, I would say your metal is too thin to do it. The only place that would have the roll stamp is Bach, and then it would have to the one from 20 years ago. I’d say give up on the idea |
+1 _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, there is no way to save that bell stamp. Once the material around it has been buffed away, it is gone forever. (That is a reason why you should be very careful with who restores your horns.)
I was told recently by a major, major Bach artist that -after he inquired about going back to a roll-stamped bell logo- Bach no longer had the machinery to stamp bells. They went 100% to a CNC process (about 25 years ago) and got rid of the old equipment. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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If you take a tour of the factory, you can see the engraving room, where special order engraving is done. It is a very small room, and nobody was working the day I was there.
All the engraving on bells in done with a laser engraving machine and now is lighter and less deep into the metal. This may be different from what many of us grew up seeing, but I have a Bb made in the mid-1990s with engraving applied in that way, so that's not a new change.
The older horns that have significant buffing in restoration are undoubtedly thinner in that area of the bell, and any additional restamping could well damage the bell even more. I'd advise leaving well enough alone. Any other attempts at roll stamping could cause the bell to be ruined.
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:12 am Post subject: |
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If the instrument has any collector value, any aftermarket messing with the stamping will take it away. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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