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fatman New Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 5 Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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self-edited _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Wed May 22, 2019 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Since valve oil was added to the topic, I'll just say that while I've used Schilke's slide grease for 4+ decades with great success, I will not use their valve oil. Just too thin in my opinion.
Myself, I am one of the last old timers who still sticks with Al Cass for the valves. It works for me on some, emphasize some, horns. (Frequent oiling, regular wiping down & swabbing - cant let it dry and build up)
I also use Yamaha Vintage for looser valves, or a hard to find poorly named thick valve oil called Parvo.
You'll find lots of favorite valve oils here, including Hetman's and Ultra Pure (both fine product lines with oils tailored to your specific valve condition). And I think there's even some Blue Juice users here - though personally I don't like anything that if it drips stains blue. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12647 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:10 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Since valve oil was added to the topic, I'll just say that while I've used Schilke's slide grease for 4+ decades with great success, I will not use their valve oil. Just too thin in my opinion.
Myself, I am one of the last old timers who still sticks with Al Cass for the valves. It works for me on some, emphasize some, horns. (Frequent oiling, regular wiping down & swabbing - cant let it dry and build up)
I also use Yamaha Vintage for looser valves, or a hard to find poorly named thick valve oil called Parvo.
You'll find lots of favorite valve oils here, including Hetman's and Ultra Pure (both fine product lines with oils tailored to your specific valve condition). And I think there's even some Blue Juice users here - though personally I don't like anything that if it drips stains blue. |
I used to use Al Cass, but for me the drying out issue was one I didn’t like dealing with. Especially since I had other options that worked as well, or better, and didn’t dry out. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Since valve oil was added to the topic, I'll just say that while I've used Schilke's slide grease for 4+ decades with great success, I will not use their valve oil. Just too thin in my opinion.
Myself, I am one of the last old timers who still sticks with Al Cass for the valves. It works for me on some, emphasize some, horns. (Frequent oiling, regular wiping down & swabbing - cant let it dry and build up)
I also use Yamaha Vintage for looser valves, or a hard to find poorly named thick valve oil called Parvo.
You'll find lots of favorite valve oils here, including Hetman's and Ultra Pure (both fine product lines with oils tailored to your specific valve condition). And I think there's even some Blue Juice users here - though personally I don't like anything that if it drips stains blue. |
I was told by someone at Schilke years ago that their Schilke branded oil WAS Al Cass....which I don’t use, though I did for years, on Schlike’s recommendation.
I don’t know the current status/manufacturer of Schilke oil.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Since valve oil was added to the topic, I'll just say that while I've used Schilke's slide grease for 4+ decades with great success, I will not use their valve oil. Just too thin in my opinion.
Myself, I am one of the last old timers who still sticks with Al Cass for the valves. It works for me on some, emphasize some, horns. (Frequent oiling, regular wiping down & swabbing - cant let it dry and build up)
I also use Yamaha Vintage for looser valves, or a hard to find poorly named thick valve oil called Parvo.
You'll find lots of favorite valve oils here, including Hetman's and Ultra Pure (both fine product lines with oils tailored to your specific valve condition). And I think there's even some Blue Juice users here - though personally I don't like anything that if it drips stains blue. |
I was told by someone at Schilke years ago that their Schilke branded oil WAS Al Cass....which I don’t use, though I did for years, on Schlike’s recommendation.
I don’t know the current status/manufacturer of Schilke oil.
Brad |
Believing that to be the case, I bought several bottles in a package deal several years ago and, well, that was not Al Cass. Haven't tried it since. In fairness, maybe that was a bad batch, but 6 bad bottles was way more than enough for me. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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FWI -
Valve Oil - a lighter oil that lubricates the valves. In the past these were petroleum based, but now there are a variety of synthetic oils that are longer lasting. Old school oils - Al Cass, Holton/Bach Valve Oil (same stuff, nowadays) , 5-Starr, etc - tend to evaporate quicker and need more constant oiling. Synthetics include Hetman, Yamaha, Ultra-Pure.
Slide Grease - aka Tuning Slide Grease is a thicker grease - not oil - that lubricates the tuning slides on a brass instrument. These vary from slow and thick greases like the red Bach Tuning Slide Grease to lighter offerings. Some companies - Hetman, for example - have tuning slide grease in various thicknesses and speeds, lighter for slides you need to move while playing (such as the third valve slide) and thicker for main tuning slides that you want to be able to adjust occasionally and not have slip easily.
Slide Oil - such as you are inquiring about and is linked above - is essentially valve oil that is re-labeled for use on the main trombone slide. The Conn oil is a older petroleum based oil which evaporates relatively quickly on brass valves. It performs far worse on trombone slides. It gets sold because it's cheap and easy to throw in a trombone case, but does a mediocre job of keeping the main slide moving smoothly. On tuning slides as you are asking it is a bit fast and even more importantly also will dry far too quickly to be useful. It's also fairly messy. Most trombonist use...
...Some sort of slide treatment. This is a cream like Trombotine or Superslick Trombone cream (or many others) or something like Slide-o-Mix or Rapid Comfort or the new Yamaha slide mix - which is great.
So, in conclusion - get some sort of slide grease. The Schilke Slide Grease mentioned before is great, the Superslick Slide Grease is also very good, and the Bach - though certainly not my favorite, certainly does the job.
It's the day and age of online shopping. I'm sure you can find someplace that will ship you the correct stuff. Is there an Amazon equivalent or an online music retailer in your area of the world? _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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fatman New Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 5 Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: Using CG Conn Slide Oil for trumpet slide |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | FWI -
-cut-
Slide Oil - such as you are inquiring about and is linked above - is essentially valve oil that is re-labeled for use on the main trombone slide. The Conn oil is a older petroleum based oil which evaporates relatively quickly on brass valves. It performs far worse on trombone slides. It gets sold because it's cheap and easy to throw in a trombone case, but does a mediocre job of keeping the main slide moving smoothly. On tuning slides as you are asking it is a bit fast and even more importantly also will dry far too quickly to be useful. It's also fairly messy. ...
-cut-
So, in conclusion - get some sort of slide grease. The Schilke Slide Grease mentioned before is great, the Superslick Slide Grease is also very good, and the Bach - though certainly not my favorite, certainly does the job.
It's the day and age of online shopping. I'm sure you can find someplace that will ship you the correct stuff. Is there an Amazon equivalent or an online music retailer in your area of the world? |
Thanks for your replies. I've been regularly going around and checking the 3 major music stores here and they haven't had any trumpet slide grease in stock for over a year, maybe more than 2 years. The CG Conn Slide Oil, whose Amazon link I used so you know what product I was talking about, was the ONLY offer for slide lubricant.
We have Lazada here, which is similar to Amazon. I just dislike online shopping and prefer to go to a store. Besides, the delivery charge might cost more than the item itself. If I have no choice, I really will order online.
Just fyi, I've been using CG Conn Valve Oil for my trumpet valves because I had no choice. It was the only valve oil being sold in the store. Which is also the same store offering me CG Conn Slide Oil.
I dread the day when online would be the only place I can buy trumpet lubricants. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is 50-50 anhydrous lanolin and amber petrolium jelly. I used to occasionally mix and dispense it into the little jars from a coffee urn with a spout when I worked at Schilke's in the '70's.
You can also mix lanolin with mineral oil, experiment to find a viscosity that you like. I use thicker (less oil) on the main tuning slide and 2nd slide and thinner on the 1st and 3rd slide. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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You can make your own. I had a good friend (RIP) who used a pint of lamp oil with a few drops of "Mystery Marvel Oil", an automotive additive and he was very happy with it. You can use kerosene as well. (it does stink). If Yamaha lubes are available they are very good and not so smelly although they did have one we called "skunk oil" which did smell. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | ... I had a good friend (RIP) who used a pint of lamp oil with a few drops of "Mystery Marvel Oil", an automotive additive and he was very happy with it. You can use kerosene as well. (it does stink). ... |
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I use 'Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil' (the variety that is 100% petrol, no odor, and clear). It works very well as a light weight oil - similar to Al Cass (And if I ever run out of my supply of Cass, I'll use it instead).
It also works well as a no odor solvent.
I think there is NO relation to this brand of lamp oil to the similar named Valve Oil - completely different companies. And I think the Valve Oil is synthetic.
For 'mineral oil', I buy at drug store / pharmacy - also clear and no odor.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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fatman New Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 5 Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: |
-cut-
It is 50-50 anhydrous lanolin and amber petrolium jelly. I used to occasionally mix and dispense it into the little jars from a coffee urn with a spout when I worked at Schilke's in the '70's.
You can also mix lanolin with mineral oil, experiment to find a viscosity that you like. I use thicker (less oil) on the main tuning slide and 2nd slide and thinner on the 1st and 3rd slide. |
Thanks! I think I will try this instead. Lanolin and mineral/baby oil should be available in any major drug store.
As for automotive additive, kerosene, and lamp oil, I think I'll give them a pass. I feel very uneasy about those things getting too close to my mouth and nose.
@Jay - I'll keep the lamp oil in mind in case I can't find any valve oil anymore, but I hope I won't have to and that the music store will still have their valve oil available for a long time.
Thank you everyone! I will keep in mind the brands and products you all recommended. The Lazada site doesn't seem sorted well. Keywords like "trumpet valve oil" and "trumpet slide grease (or oil)" don't really produce useful suggestions. Lots of automotive items clutter the results.
-Jon |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | You can make your own. I had a good friend (RIP) who used a pint of lamp oil with a few drops of "Mystery Marvel Oil", an automotive additive and he was very happy with it. You can use kerosene as well. (it does stink). If Yamaha lubes are available they are very good and not so smelly although they did have one we called "skunk oil" which did smell. |
Actually, I used to use a mixture of Kerosene and 3-in-One Oil for my valves and Vaseline for my slides. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Using CG Conn Slide Oil for trumpet slide |
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fatman wrote: | I dread the day when online would be the only place I can buy trumpet lubricants. |
I thankfully, I don't have to buy my lubricants online, but I would happily do so in order to get the ones I think work best. (For me these valve oils are: Yamaha synthetic, Ultra Pure, Hetman).
JayKosta wrote: | I think there is NO relation to this brand of lamp oil to the similar named Valve Oil - completely different companies. And I think the Valve Oil is synthetic. |
This is true. Ultra-Pure brass lubricants are synthetic and non-toxic - and not related to the lamp oil company. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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fatman wrote: | Ed Kennedy wrote: |
-cut-
It is 50-50 anhydrous lanolin and amber petrolium jelly. I used to occasionally mix and dispense it into the little jars from a coffee urn with a spout when I worked at Schilke's in the '70's.
You can also mix lanolin with mineral oil, experiment to find a viscosity that you like. I use thicker (less oil) on the main tuning slide and 2nd slide and thinner on the 1st and 3rd slide. |
Thanks! I think I will try this instead. Lanolin and mineral/baby oil should be available in any major drug store.
As for automotive additive, kerosene, and lamp oil, I think I'll give them a pass. I feel very uneasy about those things getting too close to my mouth and nose.
@Jay - I'll keep the lamp oil in mind in case I can't find any valve oil anymore, but I hope I won't have to and that the music store will still have their valve oil available for a long time.
Thank you everyone! I will keep in mind the brands and products you all recommended. The Lazada site doesn't seem sorted well. Keywords like "trumpet valve oil" and "trumpet slide grease (or oil)" don't really produce useful suggestions. Lots of automotive items clutter the results.
-Jon |
Lanolin oil thinned with just the right amount of valve oil or similar is fantastic for getting the exact amount of freedom you want in the slides (I know of nothing better) - but be forewarned, it will stain everything those parts of your horn touch! _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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fatman New Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 5 Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Lanolin oil thinned with just the right amount of valve oil or similar is fantastic for getting the exact amount of freedom you want in the slides (I know of nothing better) - but be forewarned, it will stain everything those parts of your horn touch! |
Meaning it will stain clothes etc but is ok with the horn itself? I can live with that. I'm more worried about corrosion and damage to the horn itself.
I went around and looked for lanolin in the major drug stores in my area but can't find any lanolin. Someone in this thread said that they have been using Vaseline or Petroleum Jelly + mineral/baby oil as substitute for slide grease. How was it? It didn't cause corrosion or damage to the horn right?
I passed by one of major music stores I frequent and they suddenly had 1, only, bottle tuning slide grease on hand. This was after regularly going back there for the passed year. I snapped it up and I guess I'll be fine for a few months. Here is what the item looked like:
https://www.whitneymusic.com/product-page/tuning-slide-grease-cg-conn
Thanks for all your replies! I appreciate it very much. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I have no idea if Conn tuning slide grease has changed since the 1970s, but what they sold back then dried out into a glue way too fast for me.
Pure lanolin oil is something I get from Amazon. I am not sure what the options are where you are. When I said cutting lanolin with a light oil will stain things I was referring to fabrics (both clothes and case lining), not the instrument.
Another "cheat" is Bag Balm, a mildly analgesic salve originally made for dairy cows and now quite popular for use by humans on dry, cracked, irritated or abraded skin. It is readily available in drug stores here. The active pain reliever in it is 0.3% Hydroxyquinoline Sulfate. The rest is a mix of petroleum jelly and lanolin oil - so it makes excellent slide grease. I worried a bit about silver plated horns because of the sulfate, but its too small a percentage to prompt any tarnishing as far as I have seen. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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fatman wrote: | Someone in this thread said that they have been using Vaseline or Petroleum Jelly + mineral/baby oil as substitute for slide grease. How was it? It didn't cause corrosion or damage to the horn right? |
I used Vaseline on my slides exclusively for decades and never noticed any damage. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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fatman New Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 5 Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | I used Vaseline on my slides exclusively for decades and never noticed any damage. |
I'm relieved to know that. It's a pain to worry about where to find trumpet lubricants here. Music stores here seem to concentrate on the instruments but not the needed consumables.
@OldSchoolEuph : Thanks! I'll try to look Bag Balm up. Regarding the grease, I usually put a little every week or two, to make sure the slides don't get stuck. So far, it seems ok but on the "thick" side.
Thanks to everyone for their input. |
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