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Robert P
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 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: Do you double on bone? Does it effect your trumpet chops? |
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I'm trying to learn some trombone but find that it can really mess up my trumpet chops. I first experienced it years ago when I tried a trombone and I find it's still an issue. A couple of minutes isn't too bad but if I do more than that my upper lip becomes swollen and hard. I practiced for about 20 mins the other day and it made it impossible to even get a sound out of the trumpet - my upper lip was visually swollen and felt every bit of it. Took a full day to get back to functionality on the trumpet.
James Morrison swaps between them like it's nothing but he has extremely thin lips. I have full lips, particularly my upper lip - seems very prone to swelling when more of the tissue is engaged in vibrating.
Anyone have this issue and found a way around it?
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JoseLindE4
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| How long did you stick with it on your last attempt? |
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Andy Del
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:15 am Post subject: |
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I have to teach broth, so there are times when I play a fair amout of trombone. The key is to move back and forth, to get used to the differences.
Usually, I can get back onto a trumpet with almost no issues. Some lip buzzing, resetting the trumpet mouthpiece by moving from lip buzz to mpc buzz does the trick, but sometimes, the best repair is to rest and take a bit of time...
Cheers
Andy
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bike&ed
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've never learned proper trombone slide positions, but I double on euphonium/tuba regularly. When I first started, I wasn't able to play trumpet for around 30 minutes after playing low brass. After several months, switching back and forth became natural. However, after laying off the euph for a few months, I had to re-adapt to switching again. |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | I have to teach broth, so there are times when I play a fair amout of trombone. The key is to move back and forth, to get used to the differences.
Usually, I can get back onto a trumpet with almost no issues. Some lip buzzing, resetting the trumpet mouthpiece by moving from lip buzz to mpc buzz does the trick, but sometimes, the best repair is to rest and take a bit of time... |
Yup.
Did both a fair amount some years back when I was teaching a lot. It feels weird to start with and moving from bone back to trumpet - the trumpet mouthpiece feels like the head of a pin on your chops. It's just so tiny.
However, this will pass. Practice moving back and forth a lot. Do it on days were you're not going to a rehearsal or show. Get some trumpet in and then play bone. Then go back to trumpet. Play through it feeling terrible and not working great. Eventually, each mouthpiece will feel at home when it's on your face and the order won't matter anymore.
One of my best chop days ever was for a concert in which I played a fair amount of trombone a few hours earlier. It really got my chops relaxed and they responded great. Great sound was coming out the bell that day.
I don't have thin lips. I've never had the swelling issues you speak of. Not sure what to say about that.
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bnsd
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
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agree with the previous poster... at first the trumpet feels TINY on your chops after playing trombone. I don't play enough trombone for it to really matter, but I always try to play trumpet first, then bone.
My tone is HELL on trumpet after I've been playing bone for an hour |
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mm55
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| bnsd wrote: | | ... at first the trumpet feels TINY on your chops after playing trombone. I don't play enough trombone for it to really matter, but I always try to play trumpet first, then bone. |
I do just the opposite. I ALWAYS play trumpet after playing trombone. I make a point of it. It's an important part of how I manage my occasional bone playing. If I don't play trumpet after bone, eventually that transition will become unworkable, as it was before I decided to always finish with trumpet.
This procedure was suggested by "Iron Mike" Bogart at a TOP horn section clinic, and it allowed me to learn how to transition from trombone to trumpet without big problems.
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Stevenplaysbrass
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| mm55 wrote: |
I do just the opposite. I ALWAYS play trumpet after playing trombone. I make a point of it. |
I definitely agree. I do a lot of recording where I have to play lead trumpet, trombone, euphonium, and tuba. When I prepare for the sessions, I try to practice bottom up so my lip can adjust.
I have full lips and at first experienced issues with swelling after playing low brass. I found that trying to use muscle memory in my favor to "compartmentalize" each embouchure helped. I also purposefully use mouthpieces that feel distinctly different from one another. My trombone mouthpiece (King M21) has a rim and depth that feel very "trombone" to me. My tuba mouthpiece (Denis Wick 2SL) has a very flat, wide rim that feels much wider than my trombone mouthpiece. Using this strategy, my trumpet mouthpiece feels very, very small but with bottom up practice, I can lean into that and use only the amount of my lip that I need to make a good sound.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I played bone one year in one of UNT's Lab Bands, while still playing trumpet, and it made no negative effect. Additionally, I have a cousin who has played both for half a century. It might not work for some but did for us.
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bike&ed
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Steven, I love the featured tune and arrangement on your website, great stuff man! |
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Brassnose
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I double on bass trumpet to an extent that I seem to play more bass trumpet than trumpet. Starting bass trumpet after 35 years of trumpet/flugel only was strange but practicing for a few months solved that issue. I am now at home (amateur level, but anyway) on both instruments but keep finding that I prefer the bass trumpet for quite some things.
A few things helped me getting things right from the start:
1. do not over-practice. I started with about 10 min. Sessions or until the lips felt strange.
2. find the right mouthpiece. The one that came with the horn was way too large.
3. find the right spot for the mp. As it is quite large compared to a tp mp, I set it up higher and have a larger fraction of my upper lip in the mp (in fact I also do this now on trumpet and gained about half an octave plus my sound and intonation and endurance got better).
4. once I felt roughly comfortable I took it to my trumpet teacher to check for my playing and for "monitoring and correction"
5. I forgot: when I started I played tp for one day and btp the next one. Now I can pretty much switch back and forth unless I put in a really long practice session on the bass horn.
Does this help my trumpet playing? Yes indeed, mostly in the air flow control and tongue position aspects but also as far as hearing intonation quirks (and correcting them), among others, is concerned.
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