Holton Heim 2

napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

I bought a Holton Heim 2. Nice mouthpiece, but tiring, very tired the lips.
At the beginning very easy to play, including high notes, but after a little swollen lips.
Does anyone have experience and advice?

Walter Bone · Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:30 am Post subject:

Hi,
I tried the holton heim 2 recently because it popped out used at a good price in my area and I was curious.
Coming from a bach 3c it's a very different beast. It is very efficient but you have to approach it differently. I found that you have to find more support from the mouthpiece itself, starting out pretty relaxed and finding the sweet spot where notes come out easily. Then you make slight adjustments to achieve a good sound. Finding the right position is crucial and you must not deviate much from there, and this might feel a bit restrictive.
I was able to achieve a better endurance than on the 3c, but I had tuning issues on my trumpet and I like the more sparkling sound that the 3c gives me, so I decided to drop it.
I am still a beginner anyway, other member with orders of magnitude more experience than me will surely give you a more insightful opinion.

delano · Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:40 am Post subject:

Yes, the Holton Heim 2 has a small diameter rim but quite a deep cup. That can be very demanding for an underdeveloped embouchure, sometimes resulting in a wrong way of playing. I owned one for some time and at that time it was a bad mouthpiece for me so I sold it.

napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

Just a few days, the lips get used to. Very big mouthpiece. Very easy high notes.
For low notes need more time.
The sound of Miles Davis does not come out automatically, but a really good and particular mouthpiece

delano · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:55 am Post subject:

napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

Go further and don't care about me.

seedank · New Member Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 10

not too well known but the backbore is pretty small on those too....plus cup not really a high note cup, goes down almost straight right after the rim....are you having any wobble in the shank too?.....most of these are a slightly different taper

delano · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:24 am Post subject:

Walter Bone · Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:03 am Post subject:

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Heim mouthpieces are designed for the old pre-war Holton receiver taper (from a time when they also had no gap). They work well in vintage horns with that taper if you can adapt to the proportions, and help create a more accurate representation of the tonal character of those old instruments. I wouldn't use one for anything modern though - the shank is just not the right shape.
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Walter Bone · Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:00 am Post subject:

trumanjazzguy · Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject:

I think it’s interesting that everyone thinks Miles played a Heim 2, when the piece he played most of the time was a Gustat no. 2. Just letting you guys know... the Gustat came BEFORE the Heim.
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napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

Did Miles play the similar Heim deeper (Heim 1) or less deep (Heim 2)?

napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

The Kanstul Gustat 1 and 2 are very similar. Change the diameter, the depth is the same. The Kanstul Gustat 1 is the most similar to that used by Miles Davis. Both are not very deep: like a 3C

trumanjazzguy · Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject:

^I disagree wholeheartedly. The Gustat 2 is quite a bit deeper than a 3C, and the Heim 2 is also slightly deeper than a 3C. Both also have sharper bites, and are smaller in diameter than a modern 3C. Lot’s of misinformation as usual on the herald about these pieces...!
_________________
TPT: Nova LA
CRN: Getzen 1950’s W/5.5in bell
FL: Jupiter 1100R
‘Pieces:
TPT: 34-throat shallow double-cup, Chet Baker’s Custom Schilke, Bach Corp 3, Bach Mt. Vernon 6C, Ken Titmus BF Custom(s).
CRN: NY Giardinelli 7SV.
FL: Yamaha Bobby Shew

rockford · Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:35 am Post subject:

https://www.kanstul.com/one-piece-trumpet-mouthpiece-g-series/
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napoorsocapo · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Apr 2019 Posts: 111

Still not understand if Miles used the deeper Heim (Heim 1) or less deep (Heim 2)?

kehaulani · Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject:

FWIW, my Legends Heim 1 is deeper than my Holton Heim 2. My understanding is that Miles played a Heim 2.
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lipshurt · Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject:

Miles did not use a heim mouthpiece. He studied with joe gust at in high school and gustat made mouthpieces. He was a great famous player and teacher and mouthpiece maker. He did know Heim and they played in an orchestra together.

Miles had two gustats, and those were reproduced by Kanstul called the G1 and G2. The G1 is deeper. They are not the same as the heim or the holton Heim although they are somewhat similar.

It looks to me like the shallower G2 was made out of a G1 by shaving down the top to make it shallower, but that is conjecture based on the fact that the gustats were shorter in total length. The Holton Heim were also pretty long total length.

Enrich Rava sounds awesome on the Heim 2 on his CD that has the song called “sand”. That is a superb CD by the way, and he really uses the Heim right. Easy but not loud upper register, great sound.

The main dif between the G2 and the Holton Heim 2 that the G2 has less room right under the rim. A “higher alpha angle” that many players can’t get to work, but works nice if you can work it. The other disadvantage to the G2 is that the shorter total length and no cylindrical throat section makes for dicey intonation and wide slots that some people can’t deal with.

They both have the flat narrow rim sharp on inner and outer radius.
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kehaulani · Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject:

Interesting: https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1094680

James New, if he checks in from time to time, might be able to shed some light on this, once and for all. My understanding is that Wallace Roney brought one of Miles' mouthpieces in to Kanstul. If James was working there at the time, maybe he knows what was really there. I read a lot of conflicting stories.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn