"High notes aren't all that important anyway".

[Tpt_Guy]

[gabriel127]

Yes, I'll agree with you there. It's getting tiresome to me too.

[INTJ]

[Lionel]

These kinds of topics used to surprise me. The cognitive dissonance used to appear stunning to me. Think about ut,

A topic concerning the lack of importance of high notes poster on a forum specifically dedicated to duscussing high note development.

It's humorous. I'm almost chuckling. The misplaced efforts seen here (in general, no one in specific mentioned here) seems to come from the fact that no central theory or text concerning playing high notes has been accepted. Or even developed. Although one or two seem to at least point the right direction. The two I'm thinking of are Reinhardt and Stevens-Costello. However just mentioning these two long since deceased scholars represents even more cognitive dissonance. Despite having similarities? Neither man, Doc Reinhardt or Roy Stevens agreed with each other. I'm not sure but I believe that they greatly disliked each other.

And I've seen the same lack of agreement by our more modern professors of trumpet study. Most tend to become heavily invested in their own theories. As such none are ever likely to recognize helpful concepts arising from sources outside of their own sphere.

My opinion? While there are different ways of managing the physics of embouchure there still exist certain constsnt physical laws governing high note production. The general reason why most of us fail is because the function of our embouchure eliminates that possibility. Our chops usually analogous to a clarinet player who assembles his reed and ligature incorrectly. While it may work well enough up to a high C or so it simply can not advance above that note.

Except of course that no clarinet teacher worth ten cents would ever allow a student to proceed with such a poorly installed reed and mouthpiece installation. However those analogous components such as "reed" and "mouthpiece" are not so easily observed on a brass instrument player. Let alone even understood. Most of us do not understand the interelationship of the teeth, lips and jaw. These body parts resembling (in function) the ligature, reed and mouthpiece of the clarinetist.

Until a certain amout of agreement concerning these matters is reached the great majority of trumpet players will fail. Due to inadequate range. Yes, high notes are important. Regardless of the naysayers. However the great majority of us are using embouchure settings equally as backward as the describef clarinet player uses.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[area51recording]

[INTJ]

Lionel,

If I read the OPs post correctly, he was speaking or high notes as those above High G (4 ledger lines). I think that is a different discussion than whether notes from High C to High G are important, which is where this thread seems to have drifted.

I can maintain range to High A (4 ledger lines, and slots well on my horns) with 10 minutes of range drills each day and occasionally adding a high melody. To be able to play from High A to DHD/DHE to that same level of comfort would require probably and hour a day of range work to gain and maybe 30 minutes a day to maintain. Being an amateur hack comebacker with a full-time corporate job, I just don’t have the time to spend developing that part of my range.

My task right is learning how to play lead well, and to play lead I don’t need an extreme upper range. I need to play with better style and get more endurance, and that is how I spend the 1.5 to 2 hours I have to practice each day.

Now if the OP was speaking of natural range as being only G on top of the staff, then I would completely disagree. Virtually anyone can develop their range to G above High C with some deliberate practice.

Also, I DO have a unifying theory of trumpet range, which is what you’d expect from an INTJ. It is pretty much what you described. Generally, we all must play the same way to produce high notes on the trumpet. However, we all think about HOW we do that a little differently. One player’s idea of more air will result in a very similar physical configuration as another player’s idea of backing off the air. The goal is having the correct amount of support, but each player will likely think about that and feel that a little differently. In fact, the same player may change how they think about such things as they develop.

I think that is how we can have to apparently conflicting ideas both work. Its only the visualizations that are different. The physical configuration is likely VERY similar.
_________________
Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel

Harrelson 5mm MP

[delano]

[delano]

This topic is built on a quote from mr. Lionel.
And yes, I defined this as notes above high G, a fifth above high C.
Still I think a regular (I called it natural) range for a schooled trumpetplayer goes from low F# to high G. And that range has to sound full, round, resonating and without tension. Of course their are specialist trumpetplayers and for them there is a job to do, when asked for, in the extreme upper register.
My biggest objection against mr. Lionel is that he sees players who are satisfied with a high G as ignorant people, poor suckers, failures, losers, liars. Some other uses in this context the anology with the narrow minded thinking of drugs abusers.
I know now that it makes no sense to discuss this with him any further because his point is clear. Maybe I am influenced in another way. Years ago I was on some trumpetmeeting where all the Schagerl instruments were tested. I always have problems with German (and Austrian) built instruments cause the way they play (for me they feel often heavy blowing) but I could produce on a rotary quite a good sound. Then came that wicked (and very talented) student from Rotterdam conservatory. He took that same horn and blew me complete out of the hall. Never heard a sound like that. So that became my primary goal. But mr. Lionel tells me now that was wrong, DHC or better triple C, that's the way to go. Forget it.

[JayKosta]

[delano]

You are completely free to start a new topic.

[Bulgakov]

[delano]

A little present for the ones that want to impress the public:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D14X4ovKT70

[John Mohan]

[mrhappy]

Sure, the high note at the end was impressive but how about those fancy shorts at 5:10!!
_________________
MH

[Brad361]

Thinking about the title of this thread, doesn’t it depend on the genre to a large extent? Whether or not someone likes the sound of a trumpet in the upper register, you need whatever register that the music calls for.

Too simplistic, maybe.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[John Mohan]

[kehaulani]

[INTJ]

It’s the “maybe” part that is wrong and argument worthy........


_________________
Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel

Harrelson 5mm MP

[area51recording]

I think it depends....

[JetJaguar]

Will this be the next Titanic thread, following the HMS What's Up With Kanstul?
_________________
1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com